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it each attention attention it you you it it you start today by introducing a man who is actually no introduction bill Gates welcome Bill yet be the reason today's conversation started when we last met and buy it clear that the Ted conference and um we were talking about is about thorium reactors and Deb we've recently been at peace about thorium in this alternative to the uranium based reactors and dove I thought you were just chatting I thought it might or might be amiss in this and so weak it's mention the word thorium about twenty minutes later here with my jaw fully on the floor I realize that mom along with everything else aside from possibly in pop music and to reality TV you encyclopedic of the expert on thorium reactors and much discussed Medtronic Slater I felt I felt that I was the eye and a reliance what's Bill Gates post Microsoft me which is that we had the opportunity for you and your your your your wisdom your incredible curiosity and or economic the leverage to introduce new industries and find ways to reinvent and so I thought that energy is such an important subject right now and one its own kitchen that we could with that we would have if they discover run through all the various energy alternatives and disruptions in your perspective on the mall I want to start with with nuclear he knew it we had a good investment in nuclear technology company I wanted just ask for to begin with how has Japan change your perspective on nuclear and her sense of what the trajectory for nuclear will be both in the United States and the world we're not talking about reality TV side truly know nothing about that well others to watch reality TV on reading off of snow from and about anarchy in a dinky in energy and think is that the status quo was pretty unacceptable that is in terms of security in terms of cost in terms of environmental impact if we don't have innovation in energy we don't improve much of all energies fundamental too far mean transporter he acted in the one in advance that would change society to make about or reducing the cost of energy he almost the top of list but back to begin your choice of picking the next camp residents are having energy be a Porter is expensive and time with family at which one could improve things better at picking energy and aren't that many ways to get energy nuclear is one of very few we have three types of energy factories nuclear natural gas coal the memory of various forms of energy farming which are about a thousand times more diffuse for area and that's wind biofuels and solar thermal solar chemical solar of what it's about energy for me and so somewhere and no either in the energy factor energy for me you've got us all costs environmental and security and all of them have big problems dude reasons why they don't immediately he let themselves in it to fixing the problems nuclear you got the cost of the plant you've got that waste disposal you've got me into the no proliferation you got safety and you've got a bench the few limitations of your depending on the big lie the good news about nuclear is that there's hardly been any innovation and nuclear so the room to do things differently he is quite dramatic you start every ended that the reaction it's a million times more energy than the other end of the factors that is if you take coal burn that for him not to natural gas burn that her reaction to getting to know in time slots without permanent damage seems like a good deal about four to play by that I knew it you have all the safety things and disposal things you can give up you might give up more than mere fact that cannot not careful but it's you won't find in a reaction that says so fundamentally favorable this Fukushima is that this is terrible awful for the people there mom many reasons why it should of been avoided both terms the initial saw him the nineteen sixties to sign three reactors but in the service nineteen seventy one nineteen seventy three nineteen seventy four the early generation to like to sign and the emergency plans were quite weak in the actual execution the situation was quite weak yet full of facts is begin repairing a given if you compare it to the amount that coal's killed per kilowatt hour or an natural gas in close up neighbor wants a while on it's way way less and it tends to come in these big events like twenty five years ago Chernobyl thirty one years ago three mile Island now Fukushima it sucks it's more visible and it needs to be improved those designs they never could simulate that can simulate what would happen they can simulate the disaster and the beauty in almost every realm they can talk about this conference is that software simulation changes the day now we can we sit there and take this layout is the funny company terra power which this out they make me Nathan Myhrvold than I have spun out of of his invention group in life adventure and it's an unknown nuclear design which on paper by amazing on paper it's a lot easier to do these things ICM paper I really mean in a supercomputer we simulate everything and so we can simulate Richter Tanner way which simulates having the waves come in and that these things for equal on and we would basically say no human should ever be required to do anything because the judge by Chernobyl him and Fukushima the human element to stop on your spot even fully up to to circulate little bit of water over something the storage pool of of spent fuel I have to do is keep them watered down enough to circulate in yet because sobriety things up that turned out to be difficult to guard the science of humans to still have to be involved in but it has real potential it doesn't move at the speed of semiconductor so the best case is that by twenty twenty one of these to get built and then by twenty thirty you can have hundreds of them on and then you know that really is economic as we say this as a person is CO2 free that's the easiest part of that offence make a big impact your office to compare Iraq to get nuclear powers that are political this less about the facts more about the perception often just getting these things through when you look at the the the past getting these things deployed builds you know I'm here but not my backyard province you think that's possible for a leader to overcome the political opposition to nuclear post of Japan and then continue on the the pace of new installations were hoping for wedding you know politicians have to deal with death of coal miner stuff in particular that have doubts on him yet the voters seem to want energy on to drive around and keep their homes sorry it's gonna be a political decision because these things are highly regulated as they should be and many of them require government involvement in the early stages to get to the technologies going and right of ways many things that in both politics and CIA to go up to really a B C and D be able to communicate that you are incredibly stay on it's the nuclear industry has this amazing record even based on generation wanted to type but the generation three stop the building today is mostly passive safety the thing about her powers the Federation for design of the bill best case twenty twenty but those are truly awesome song Ozark it and and we understand she likes to daydream we understand what the DT people but we understand these things a lot better and so yes I do believe that a design it's done now first is the sign that some of the nineteen sixties my day you don't just me word to mean that in a full heart goes out and hit all system shutdown that is to physically are principally say that's right in their extreme cases what you have a say the reactor shut down the call of a four am they call it that because in the regional thing to add that the control rods are hanging by a string would take an axe and cut the rope him in the fall of the wood with all the mouth of the term of spam spam come from anyway in a tit terrible case of the reactor shutdown in a way that them properly ever again that's in the B strain the square first free safety systems fail the last two safety systems wraps to visit the fail safe are cold and shut down things that that killed the economic value the reactor but you have no he'll have a DC situation that can cause probably the reason the reason reactor for top is that you know when to shut them down there's after key now right when you shut it down he said a pretty high level it declines exponentially the venture they can actually take the rods out with them just in the storage ponds which initially are in water and then to benefit the city and in strikeouts rocks because there's so little he coming up but right at the beginning you happy if you don't do anything about that key that it isn't totally get a graphite fire no contain vessel seal off the team radioactive product up and and when this is going around in the case could she not they melted the email to the rod one of the reactors got twenty five hundred degrees C the oven about twenty one hundred BC because it was a walk the water boiled away the water you expose the fuel and that's the fee after key you've got to circulate little bit of water that we can Federation three does it by having a p one thousand to the Westinghouse site has a big cold water pot as soon as anything's going down wrong and the reactor it's heating up this big for water drops down and that takes care of the P forty eight hours are the equivalent system takes care of after you forever all where do you think reactors first you need to reach first be built and which acknowledges two years you talk to him China and South Africa India sector in the States historically the United States was the big leader in all these different types record to four hundred commercial reactors in the world today a hundred mg of them in the United States seventy and the man for and so were the two biggest odd two pm I'm sorry but China today ah has twenty the Iranian then they have twenty eight that are under construction so the other way to be the map to see the United States from the doctor India sought a very aggressive about crushes on him a fairly aggressive top and so the ideal would be if the United States for the best science of understanding of these new materials the software it to be built here that may be tricky because the kind of funding for these projects on right now is and isn't high enough up now you might think it should be but it may end up being built and im up another country it leading well the time of the nuclear industry is it fear of nuclear power was invented and they have this this design work on a submarine they very quickly took that and turn it into power reactor and so the rest of the fifties and sixties were basically that saw the sign modified then they went to generation too and did a fairly good job but then the industry got shut down between three mile Island Chernobyl will cost everything cold in particular the industry just disappeared so that was almost no innovation a few companies kept going on these generation street signs to a particular Westinghouse with a p one thousand men the French company a rebuff with what they call the EP are so those of the two most important average free to sign and the Chinese are building all the bowls no pick one is the standard finally get some ball him on an identical time if ever been more than five bill that are saying and what the Chinese one of the spilled sixty that are the same generation three then all these countries are saying ok what about cared for is it cheaper on which we claim we are on paper we were we don't have the same waste problem we don't the fuel like to do because we burn all the rain so there's a lot of advantages there's about four or five different art support the signs and none of which you have a commitment by anyone to build them and the standard for signs that things like the chair for one couple yes there's a ton of these things and many of them are discussing cool science of the economics are very attractive even generation three other that the more expensive than generation true it's not like we think about kittens to work together to generations post the dramatic that are powerful and expose be less expensive the generous support can be a lot less expensive on there are ways of doing the design to make things alot somewhat doubts about the proposition you're in Leicester getting an environmental benefit from being sealed to free you're competing with shale gas which is buried ah prevalent in about the big revolution and anarchy of the last decade is the discovery of Napa caps of these these two formations which to be only has really been it's what the United States but it's not that globally and Paul is unbelievably cheap and CIA have to compete in last Sunday's give due credit for not putting out see a train got a cookie with those things and they have much more capital costs and they kill people but they tended to only a few of the time which is highly preferred by politicians it it one you describe it into two classes of energy factors in energy for them mustard and you are solar wind and bio etc of which was the opposite new portfolio but that befall them it's not a matter that there's no silver bullets and to not really matter choosing but that when you look at Sir the technological trajectory of those three industries solar wind down bio which ones you think is the most potential but clearly the one with the most potential is solar electric or partial or chemical bomb in all of those things are internet resources on that is the top twenty for today whenever you want they are only available at certain locations the wind doesn't blow everywhere the sun doesn't shine a lot everywhere you can roll things everywhere and some countries have very little of those pills of spice locations and to these things are this far the terms of just the raw physics him out of energy that available ah for strollers is phenomenal and even though it's wildly expensive when does have the subsidized by the factor too solar but not the factor of five and that's only when they're just a small percentage of power make it to be any meaningful percentage that's where the problem of their intimate and see becomes overwhelming and you can actually spend way more to try and solve the problem in the spam on the the overpriced up to begin but solar a huge park with when you can actually create more about what's likely to cost for materials with so you can imagine that will get thirty even today even if they give you the paddles for pre installation costs making on competitive CF to think ok or that of the robots that can be scaled to these things that you can drain on about salute electric and solar chemical and and as you said we should pursue them all I've got at investments and dozens of energy companies the most interesting portfolio he is on what the known pulls the house in his it's quite fun off with a lot of great companies there but no battery companies solar chemicals over the wall that there's there's a lot of IQ and that's really I think if you wanna leading indicators that you feel good about he met a bike you working on energy today Anaconda tools they have to communicate simulate versus twenty years ago it's my day and so but it's very unpredictable whether we're going to get a break it or not and Altria the problems are serious some not that that uncertainty makes you think white but we put more and Carnegie we encourage the planet we do more pilot on tight things just are three problems are it costs security and the environment so other than the fact it's too expensive you you could get up at any time and are destroying the planet it's all okay this TV this trip no doesn't destroy the planet think just the current way of doing the right icing on it we don't don't get the innovation the breakthrough but all the bouquets it is it is its intimacy I think people deeply and arrest me while what a huge problem that is intertwined time and energy system where PP is more than just a hobby into doing TV is her last three or four percent you know it's nice it's the sun shines in the day people turn her condition on during the day it's nice to get some that he is loathe to give the cat not subsidies and you know you cannot take a photo of the Pope lactic for her if you have also been its heights but the economics of Seoul Seoul far from being in terms that means green energy so far from being appropriate and that's where subsidies wherein the subsidies to cut subsidies on R and D where society always under invested basic research you put the subsidies on the plane today were putting overwhelmingly nine percent of the substance on deployment this is true in Europe the United States Army on the piece and saw porch and you get technologies are counting on you by the learning curve that takes that stuff and makes that economic that just by as much as to why it's not gonna happen in the fundamental breakthroughs of which work about a base for Easter it's at this upstairs to live next to me next be competitive with Nat gas produced electricity you have to yet did the best what four dollars every dollar that if they did they give peace a tax break or direct subsidy absolutely yet and there are a devotee of the Renault portfolio standards were you tell these companies that have at least a little bit of it that she would stop matter how much they overpay for me the mix and the price and singer pain but if it works ok so say by five percent cute stuff and it's five times over priced the deal you know it it only re surprise electricity up a fairly modest amount but doesn't change the overall consumption but the theory was that that you get learning for benefits but he opted the site is what's the what's the awesome told of any particular technology if you buy a ton of that where where to set them up and you know that square the politicians get into the mix them so we packed her read trends and and and so there's a big thing is it till the skills to this there is the use of micro is having a smaller set of solar installations on sort of into a ball off this group send in a large large commercial spaces and that all the way down to the residential each one teach one has its own sort of efficiencies and lilac they're open to the generation that large transmission it's about how to get onto the grid the note he knew that the one who won the home makes no sense in terms of you know the overall energy generation but might link up the electric current like a generation or most local storage unit notions like that when you look at the big picture of year where should this where should we be focusing should be a massive stuff in the desert you know cm the middle sliced up on all the thrift store or is there of of reinvention be made up they be if you're going for cuteness the stuff in the home is the place to go this that really caught recorded about the whole thing on her rope in everything if you're interested in the energy problem it's those big ones in the death it I mean the cutest over Georgia well it probably has rich countries can afford over paper pen week over before to overpay for medicine we can update from energy we could rid our food prices weakened overpay for sugar cotton it doesn't you know our politicians are appalled that were suffering because of repeated for these things in the world where most people with eighty percent energies can be bought where its economic so that they can bite to fertilize learn and grow enough crops to feed themselves which to be increasingly difficult with climate change the fact that they're experiencing and so they have the rich world its breakout the rich world because we're there think about long to promise to fund the auntie the promise we get sloppy because were red don't worry it's the same all no let's have this market intimate guy who sells pop go the extra mile let's have the guts of sugar connect extra money it all mean has nothing to do with reducing SEO two of its its December fall of former farm subsidy and yet some methinks that energy related money on and so the rich world is not necessarily the best the word of all which solutions are going to work for Wal Mart and concealed true problem even of the rich world did very dramatic things it doesn't come anywhere near to solving the problem after all the rest the world give energy at a reasonable price in order to have and see that govern the world love a lot more than a minute but when you new look it's with where to look for more than to test what is the right energy technologies so aside you know a place where we don't have the bills such as the place where rich consumers can access cute efficiency what country you think is good one entrance of the innovation IQ and risky team in front of the company's United States oh seven but he also when you look good the great energy portfolios and see how much of them are in the United States and how much outside United States this is the place with Agnes or even are we after idea that the people them yet what were doing the materials the simulations leaky pipes that expertise is is overwhelmingly in the United States yes some in Europe a little bit and in China now we should be willing to deploy anywhere and when you have an economy that's going and buying ten percent which is an energy intensive climb it right versus an economy that's going to say two percent and is getting less energy and pants if you are ignorant of business in a world of the design wins the cow you better be selling in Asia particularly to China because that's where Paul Mac to douse wind and solar energy thing that even close to the bombing and the Chinese to some folks in the station on that day the biggest demand is going to be there so if you believe in scale that's a market need to be an attic and skylights in personal computers which mark and goal after you've gotta go for global scale any of these technologies don't want to focus on the market now you wanna know which markets are the pioneers so say you believe in carbon sequestration they can take the poll an upward of one cm and all that the CEO to output it some more it's too bad there is no country that's between a good job building pilot plant find that out seeing what the promise was that our terms nuclear the Russians the Indians Chinese they are willing to do new and interesting things right now France Japan United States should have to say it's really questionable on this bill immediately at the immediate up the fight for breakthrough nuclear plant be built im is that state well in the nineteen fifties nineteen sixties we didn't hesitate the nineteen seventies two pm now China's hadn't taken on the mantle of not willing to accept the status quo doing the blue pot it a review of the earlier or talk about solar and Newark de emphasizing that the residential largely static this emotional up imagine a world where we we have an advantage for cars and we do have a smart creative and storage is distributed of ensemble can you imagine what that generation would make more sense in in a world where where we do have to get Bill C two use costly but the cars that says local storage dam and Michael grade while now a wish we should overall improved I mean we really should perk that's common wisdom there but insisted the energy per square meter your absorbing I mean if you have enough space to energy you clearly have enough to go through them it you know you should do everything you should do your way street across the scene they still have some really significant advantages in terms of reliability electricity is something you want to be reliable when the wind blows you wanna be reliable up when the Hill Times to happen to be reliable and no lights I don't think we'll return everybody into a running low power generation this didn't stop me it for solid were welling up got some very high temperatures thing going on we want everybody to have caught up on the rough now on it it so it's just not gonna happen the spices they will find no solar cells on the roof it's the Gates residence own words we like to be cute like everyone else in the I said rich people can do do whatever they want it speaking of China you are you here just in China um and that we were to start an electric car is that it's extra um in a cage transportation is one large as a source of the energy consumption of May and you are missing a B or D which is what the companies the chance to use that one buffet and others invested and on which to learn what it would be what you think of a better approach towards look for Carson and peppers but when you see it coming like that it's amazing where they have all the engineers living in a dormitory and working like sixteen hours a day and you know they'll point to a piece of land and staying in nine months of the car factory better we wanna stop a car factory the terms of three hundred thousand are withered the midfield eighteen months before and it's incredible to see this be you know they don't talk about firm and sore you know getting their time off for various nice things and I'd seen that before when I visited Japan up in the seventies I saw the point is a creamy the size of the kids a certain part is where your age your quality of your engineering talent is key and buried on your bias towards doing hard things is incredible and Toby white tea is building three lithium batteries their building cars actually a lot of them are guzzling cars that some electric their elected boss is of an awful lot to do in electric buses very far the matter fourteen you have to get when the boss isn't a standstill it sitting in a depressed area then they saw a lot of very interesting engineering problems and then just working day and night on most things so that the same way that they want to spill or Samsung made huge contributions in engineering and now there's a wave of Chinese companies like that the white tea at the top of the list of her in that magic time career and you look at them anything why are you doing some of the product well they have some lead on ten years in Owen and seventy percent of those products now some of their ideas are overly ambitious but that's ok in a few couple of centimeters when you have some process for filtering out the ones that work and don't work and so they're they're great they are not yet the best looking about our guys that they're close to being in the next five years in me Kate the big great work but this time Japan and Korean and go beyond there is a school of thought that looks sort of be that big industrial in the big industries in the country and tries to ensure the state's this will play what semiconductors was in the eighties nineties fears about the US competitors you now hear echoed with that I'm in love with him another another another batteries are the sort of pre twenty first century technology China is not coming from position of weakness theres the bandages the screen plants the Korean city peeps but many those plans are in fact on it in China China's made it a priority in the way the nice taste house and do you um when you look at the sort of that the role batters in the future technologies and it caught the country competitive this you think that we have nine states can compete with well be their choice to compete one has to take the content on the flip cam technology I'm gonna buy got University of Texas and an avid government throw money at the most politically favored God on in the country to go build a new tomb battery factory and their billions of dollars that have been assigned to that waste the other is to actually back people the better battery ideas and again if you take innovative battery companies overwhelmingly there in the United States are several that the gnomes back to people like Professor Southall if the MIT the type that correctly it's a lot of beer were interesting fabric onto the battery so hard to do and when we think about are kept a thing of two types of batteries one is about it for far and asked Eli has the craft but the problem and energy of the store if not all that marked and that you could compare cars from counseling to the grid now that doesn't give you an environment that they must hear grid to somehow change but it is least it gives you a security benefit on because the your your sourcing here for free or grilled locally that that's advantageous the hard battery problem is the grid pattern from where if you're getting say fifty percent of your energy from solar and the sun always shines during the day then you have to be storing up energy for the night and on the two week periods in in the dumpster we get Osama all see have to be storing energy for that time frames well and that is the mind blowing problem and its that's a factor but hundred more demanding than any battery technology that we have today as the battery problem or are there other ways too well the word battery often is restricted to chemical type storage and so there are these super coupe ouster type approaches for using other physics phenomena to store the things that only in the broad sense of anything that stores energy can be called the battery or are they the batteries of all the wood would recognize exit just back on and on the traditional within one's what's so bad when you look to begin the national competitors one with him that the element can be a bit Stelmach of them is pretty probably available on the one country at present can monopolize that um what you have technology would you describe this they were doing pretty well read that right people what about labor and land manufacturing to state what takes to turn the element for the battery can can we we compete as the country there well there's a lot of manufacturing things that up we're not competing in and the Greenwich you lot trying take government money in all essentially away from things we are good competing with and find funnel them into some part of the things were not competing with say well these are politicians to look at that right now markets will screw this up and so let's get them in a bid to move money one thing to the other will they give it to the right people in the right way or will they be discreet distortion I think it's part it is disappointing when you see all this on innovative work in the United States that so many cases you don't just acted in the manufacture or because the broad based benefit the people of all education levels somewhat presupposes that you would do almost functions and in the United States so I'm concerned about that but I'm also concerned about anything that would try and come in in and change that on the very best offer on energy boss last meal out to the bookies right now is about how America can come back and get a manufacturing base and he's is a lot of people who think that's that's fairly important one element that's greatly underestimated because people cried wolf on it too early and so it's considered strange to make a big deal about it now but it is robotics there are ways to teach the labor issues and make those far far less work and should be great but I know what it comes to batteries we need we are tough to decide what kind of innovation I were trying to innovate for all humans are just the ones that live on this particular piece of real estate in what I think about the environment I think eight I don't care it it if the guy who invested is from some strange country and the song that they can make such a way that we all get to use it and to violence out I don't really care that much where it's me and so that's where you get we get this is it about national and some words about environmentalism and and you know what's the end we end up with things like the awful thing we end up with things like subsidizing things that don't don't scale says investor you put the environment and your choices well any more company that lost in these markets that are happened to you that they're himself there their product to the United States and China and India or any other place that's that's the right thing to do so you to see a lot of companies that are based on US innovation and I wish I wish they would put more manufactured us but some of that probably won't end up I mean about what happens next question open up to the audience purposes they are yours um you a YouTube mention the notion of an energy farming course most was one of the peoples of the talk alot about ethanol the US investments on him in and biofuels that there is more promising that the little what you think is the iPod the future fields it with biofuels us have to decide which kind of way and you're using theirs the land that's good enough to grow crops today there's the lamb that could not build the grass and be used for grazing today and then there's either the water bodies from land it's not been used for anything today in if you get into that isn't the first class of land then you're competing with going through and say you are actually spike in food prices by keeping this energy demand in the movie and their corn big gap for rich people this is ok for four people this is the real problem because they're their food budget is an extremely high percentage of their income and see how people were driven from having out with food to not have inadequate foods were were pushing these things not seen the hopeful approach is not to use that land that both expensive and have high opportunity cost either through inner cropping or using residues that are used in food chain today or getting onto the other types of lamb that's where the most interesting biofuel stopping this but then again biofuels is hard because of its its farm what's in her ear popping into using a period of time during the annual calendar where the foodies have chosen to leave the land foul and if you're in a prop in particular you something that's a bonus that fact in restoring might just compounds the soil then you are actually beneficial I control alfalfa or suede beans in those those periods but it's taking the year one calendar in exploiting pulls them in which to take their technologies are for plant types you think it satisfies that area but getting those things right it's I'd say biofuels we're not quite clear that the Khan al to stop with Tom and thus the number of methods the test of time and the number of ways when wealthy it's pretty amazing it's that stuff pretty hard Tom some people do that in ponds some people to try and do it the ocean then there's various grasses which most campuses this very fast growing grass and said it somehow process not in the right way um and then it's just people trying to take the cellulose posting part of crop residues and come up with the processing technique where you go from cellulose into biofuels and a pair of expensive way affordable ways to do that none of which are all that I cannot get stuck when stocks and other waste material rights of cutting process but it's this is a chemical process of packing tape but to basically cellulose him and make hydrocarbon so there's things that involve on catalytic converters of a temperature of the things that all else that crosses seen it think it's a chemistry problem unfortunately still fairly expensive now there's a few companies claiming of these magic and assigned to him sent them to get used up so it's possible you'll get you'll get some advances there and said that there are many sources of cellulose if you can start without a cure feedstock then the economic start work that went before you start substituting for oil e the numbers came out of land house big enough to use is pretty unbelievable it gets drowned in or stop by taking her Barbies and cutting out some word and take notes for stocks but that doesn't add up to really have to take Greenfield territory and start to grow something all to get up measurable impact the US oil imports the topic of questions now from the audience time with a little harder here but to see on other the start of each year this time an animal for that your feet the things he talked alot about economic energy generation technology for that but can you address the technology is being used to increase efficiency of energy usage may be your home energy management smart grid techniques that yet there's certainly been wrong proficiency but when we bought proficiency we have to think of it what goal are aiming for one is just purely economic and that's fantastic on the second is to say can we buy increase in efficiency deal with our climate problem and the answer there is basically no because the climb up Robert Pires more than ninety percent reduction in SEO to admit it and no amount of efficiency improvement is going off every year we're improving efficiency on the four people are increasing their energy intensity so that the year not ever going to get the amounts you to admit it go down in Laos you deal with them one magic factor which is SEO two per kilowatt hour you have to get to get on the generation side because the growth in demand will lapse efficiency in some rounds team buildings particularly new design buildings and lightning some air conditioning things there are some amazing efficiency stop the commute dot lightings think the killer because you're mostly making he was today's light bulbs and so they that prices of the league in these solutions are twenty and passed it up or two it's a fairly small part of the energy equation there are lists a lot of energy consumption like the way we make up for life today it's an unbelievably optimize process and there is no way even to get more than ten percent improvement in how much energy it takes to make a certain amount of fertilizer so fairly quickly you get down to the ones where there's not the same room for improvement which is largely industrial cross the seas so we should do the efficiency stop it it's it's a great thing it housed economic benefits but we shouldn't think about as making that big of a dent in the environmental challenge an extra ticket question from that did the online audience that would have been over there on what the question said the King and is mentioned earlier that the evidence is a robotic manufacturing and other see this leads to questions about Portland with neck source of jobs will be on it you feel that the question as to feel that the young people are being are preparing for the career will be left when more more the comparable with the ten am where you are in the education Hammett education and get yes and your college crowd to it then it's fantastic the good the number of blue collar jobs has been going down I will continue to go down on in and asked that many facts and automation the North has numbed robots that can move around and do things that's the biggest form of efficiency and people of Tennessee the thing and a bit of a mole stuff going gets tough the phenomena but even the Chinese the increase in demand that Dobson China's top got it there looking at the service sectors the primary job creator although they're hoping them an effect can stay stable of course the rear it that much it was okay all of the cat become the third for thank you with all the talk about nuclear energy one thing we didn't talk about is the spent fuel seems like the current process for disposing spent fuel is to bury it in Europe is that all is that a sustainable practice and one a long term effects yet me up the current reactors generate on up a certain amount of waste now compared to the wasted a whole plant generates it's it's tiny but its radioactive and see really wanna make sure that nobody's near it it's the entire us that the entire US schools power his nuclear power to do everything you could come up with one waste repository that would hold hundreds of years and the if you went and came up with the waste repository that worked for say you know work for thousand years and was designed so that after a thousand years to go in and take it move it somewhere else the question is will we be rich or fifty years now hundreds now two hundred years now four hundred now it does now what we have understand how to simulate earthquakes and when we just be well off enough that as long as we do a great job for this miniscule storage area that in a week highlighted in the league they know it's there that you know where we're sure it's safe for thousands of years and then they take care about is that satisfactory and awe the a nuclear reactor that Tara power police and generates of pals this much waste as the typical nuclear reactor because we just burn and burn and burn we burn everything and sold me this is one of our are big advantage is that you don't run out of uranium because we burn the stuff that ninety nine point three percent uranium not just the stuff that point seven percent to two isotopes in there and everyone else does it burns the pistol stop so I do think least is a palm but when I would say that the doctor powered the signs it actually should be the thing that blocks them from being used it to various all the old prom in Yucca Mountain was a reasonable the solution and in a big big the federal government about not been that consistent all on the issue and they put together a blue ribbon panel I don't think that something will go back to the much more perceptions of safety and the true economics are or where nuclear has something to prove but it does have a storage problem and it's not farming type technology so the other technologies they also have something Allah blessed with good too it's good to be there either I did in the field his Odyssey attractive because you see is this a seawater separate storage of its effort has been gone for two with your thoughts about a hydrogen fuel source economy increased built I've never understood that time me you have to get energy from somewhere and that's what baths but called natural gas and nuclear all about the free get him to come or that or the sun the sun growing crops the sun heating things up the sun to the new photons hydrogen is just a chemical and it's a really nice chemical that is her masts the amount of energy you can get from him is his very large but all of our applications are approved calling him type applications and CF to say oh well what is going to be stored in China turns out it's fairly flammable it's the hydrogen fire is really something because the snow big red flame or anything I mean it's it's a theory theory theory that it's invisible and you you really don't wanna mess with hydrogen all laughed lots and it's hard to convert the entire system which we use hydrocarbons today so almost any process that can generate hydrogen you can t can generate hydrocarbons out of bed and hydrocarbons have this nice thing in terms of all in storage they are illiquid up and went to get up to about CA and five car bombs they are liquid I am the cupcakes that we move them around and so I did it was never a solution to anything it's just a potential way to store energy but it turns out it's a very hard way to find peace of the house the role of all it's pretty minor because the farm profits are where did the energy where to come then the notion has only was that you would we'd use your brain during her year or farms in with your TV or when it separates to store the ants to generate the energy compared to the store that had to look fine but the pipeline and then you get over that time and commitment you not only to fight hard to beat you if you wanna liquefied something make the hydrocarbon day hydrogen is only would put an extremely low temperatures so you'd be wasting it I have some little sprout infrastructure in the world so is it unless there's some huge breakthrough about how that's how to store the stuff winch but it's great there are crazy guys who have ideas about anything including that's right I type I'd say it's very very unlikely and it doesn't solve hard problems if you can take someone like I've been up to a simple trivial got to take the hydrogen and make the fiber art and then the hydrocarbon going to normal I plan to go in a normal heart ache and work can integrate placing you in that one brief moment you walk up like that but you will use that as the the time he entered the store for it of the crowd time please join me in thanking Bill Gates the uh uh it