From Islam to America: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Ayaan has never cited a source from Islam in all the lies she has spewed from her mouth about Islam. Her miserable upbringing says something about her family and perhaps the society she grew up in but says nothing about the religion. The great majority of Muslim women in the world have not experienced what she claimed to have in Somalia. Further more, her former identification as Muslim does not make her any authority on Islam. Those who blindly look to her for insights into the religion seem to be really looking for someone to reinforce a wildly inaccurate perception they developed completely independent of any facts, or sincere attempt to learn any facts, about Islam. Also he fools who equate Islam with female genital mutilation should know that the practice has existed in sub Saharan Africa since before the arrival of Islam and Christianity to the continent. The fact is that Islam forbids mutilating the body in any way and forbids denying one's right to sexual pleasure. The irony in the false allegations made by all the people too lazy to learn about something before jumping on a bandwagon to criticize it, is that female genital mutilation is outlawed AND not practiced in most Muslim countries. The greatest occurrence of this practice is amongst predominantly Christian tribes or tribes that practice traditional religions. Although it is not a Christian practice either.

Quote: Originally Posted by browser111 I think you miss the point. She is not talking about fanatical Islam. She is talking about "normal" Islamic doctrine. Islamic doctrine teaches muslims to kill unbelievers and treat women like they were only half persons. Islam does not teach that "unbelievers", as you refer non-Muslims, should be killed. Nor does it disrespect women in any way. Its too easy to speak from your ignorant perspective. Try posting evidence from actual Islamic teachings that support your irresponsible claim about the religion. And please do what Ayaan never did and cite the sources (complete verses from the Quran and authentic Hadith).

browser, "statistically" speaking you only have to look at the 20th century, the bloodiest century in recorded history, to see that Christian societies have been far more violent than any other. War in Europe for the past 2000 years has been a science of perfecting the most efficient way to kill the most number of people. This culture of violence did not abate but rather intensified after the adoption of Christianity by most Europeans. Note that the world's worst genocides have been carried out by Christian hands from the Spanish in the Americas and the Philippines, the English and the Americans, in America and around the world, the Germans in the 2 world wars, and even the Roman Catholic Rwandans. Next time, check your "statistics".

ALL of her conversation speaks to the human corruption of God's religion. Each Faith is a chapter in His Book. When it is time for society to progress, God sends another Teacher. This new Teacher reestablishes the fundamentals of God's Faith. You find the Golden Rule in all Faiths. With the corruption of Islam, it was time for God to renew His Faith. This happened in 1844 with the start of the Baha'i Faith in what was then Persia.

I agree with Ayaan that Christianity has come a long way in being tolerant of other religions (by tolerant I mean abstaining from destroying or coercing other people of different religious faith, although a Christian can be an exclusivist) and that many Christians are developing a radically different conception of God. However what I disagree with is that this should be the reason for Muslims to become more like the theists in the western world. For one reason, I think Ayaan is only criticizing 99 million muslims around the world who are very intolerant. If you do research on survey of a billion Muslims, most of these Muslims want gender equality, Democracy, and freedom. You don't believe me? Watch this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn12s19X8xU . Ayaan completely misses the big picture that even the Islamic community is so diverse. She also misses out the Sufi Muslims who are considered to be the most tolerant and philosophical sect of Islam. I'm not a Muslim but I feel like Ayaan allows her past cloud her Judgment to make hasty generalization. Another reason why I disagree with Ayaan is for the reason that not a lot of Christians believe in Universal Salvation, in contrast there are many more Christians who believe that some people will wind up in Hell while others will be raptured to Heaven. The rejection of the conception of Hell is wonderful but I'm not very certain if this rejection is really consistent with their religion. I say this because the biblical account of God does not appear to be the kind that would save everyone (I'm not saying that such a God would not want to, but rather it was very clear that some people will be "saved" while others won't). There are many more Christians, especially in America, who believe in the notion of Predestination that the Elect will be salved but the rest of the people will not. The kind of Christians that Ayaan is talking about rarely makes up a 1/3 of the Christian population in the entire world.

She urges progressive Christians to proselytize Muslims? I didn't hear that at all. She urges progressive people (including Atheist, which she is) to offer more options for Muslims. Come on Fora.tv, let's not lie about it.

Why do you try to cloud the issue by drawing an equivalence to Christians? As if all groups behave the same as radical muslims... give us a break! In case you hadn't noticed, the subject is about Islamic hatred and intolerance and its clash with the values of the civilized world. Please, denial of this huge worldwide problem, as you are doing, is the reason this has been allowed to progress to this point.

Quote: Originally Posted by drmz Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think Are we on the verge of an all-out war between the West and 1.3 billion Muslims? When the media searches for an answer to that question, they usually overlook the actual views of the world's Muslims. Who Speaks for Islam? is about this silenced majority. This book is the product of the Gallup World Poll's massive, multiyear research study. As part of this groundbreaking project, Gallup conducted tens of thousands of interviews with residents of more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have significant Muslim populations. Gallup posed questions that are on the minds of millions: Is Islam to blame for terrorism? Why is there so much anti-Americanism in the Muslim world? Who are the extremists? Where are the moderates? What do Muslim women really want? Grounded in Gallup World Poll data, not in contentious rhetoric, Who Speaks for Islam? brings data-driven evidence -- the voices of a billion Muslims, not those of individual "experts" or "extremists" -- to one of the most heated and consequential debates of our time. Counterintuitive Discoveries in Who Speaks for Islam? Who speaks for the West? Muslims around the world do not see the West as monolithic. They criticize or celebrate countries based on their politics, not based on their culture or religion. Dream jobs When asked to describe their dreams for the future, Muslims don't mention fighting in a jihad, but rather getting a better job. Radical rejection Muslims and Americans are equally likely to reject attacks on civilians as morally unjustified. Religious mainstream Those who condone acts of terrorism are a minority and are no more likely to be religious than the rest of the population. Admiration of the West What Muslims around the world say they most admire about the West is its technology and its democracy -- the same two top responses given by Americans when asked the same question. Critique of the West What Muslims around the world say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values -- the same responses given by Americans when posed the same question. Gender justice Muslim women want equal rights and religion in their societies. Respect Muslims around the world say that the one thing the West can do to improve relations with their societies is to moderate their views toward Muslims and respect Islam. Clerics and constitutions The majority of those surveyed want religious leaders to have no direct role in crafting a constitution, yet favor religious law as a source of legislation. http://www.gallup.com/press/104209/w...lly-think.aspx The Gallup pole delivers the basic views that the majority of people across many cultures want from life, it shows that these views are no different in muslims. There are peculiarities within each & every culture, unfortunately the peculiarities within the islamic culture & theocracies that rule islamic states are unacceptable to evolved beings . To plainly accept the tenets of a religious belief & enshrine them into law or to make government an instrument of a religious belief is an absurdity peculiar to islam. All that this poll shows is that people across cultures share similar ideals, it then shows that religious indoctrination takes over in the case of the muslim & becomes the cause of mistrusts, hatred & divisiveness towards no muslim humans. Again you show your position as being incapable of seeing beyond your own infinitely narrow sphere of knowledge & taking a small portion of the big picture to try to make your point. Again you failed miserably. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh & not taking your indoctrination into account.

Quote: Originally Posted by drmz She tells her truth which is build on lies. That's why she is a farce and a radical. No wonder she rooted well in the US. Good breeding ground for radicals over there. Nice anti-islam industry going on there, it's really big business, mucho $$'s to be earned. Again, glad she left the Netherlands, too bad she left Wilders behind. Seems like living in the 30's again. So articulate & well informed is this quote, that I just had to represent it. Was I being funny? I think so. drmz;43977 your quote has no substance & you have shown yourself to be an uneducated pleb.

Monomotapa Did you actually watch the video, or are you just a prize shit talker? your rant is in no way related to what the subject matter of this article. You have managed one thing though, to make yourself look stupid. Well done.