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Philip Zimbardo: The Secret Powers of Time (Animated)

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chawil Avatar
chawil
Posted: 07.13.10, 09:42 AM
Hardly. As an atheist of sorts (I think the whole god/gods/no gods folderol is a waste of time, who cares?) I can assure you that I despise advertising and refuse to buy any product advertised on television. I use generics. I seldom watch television anyway and never when I lived in the US. I have found through personal experience that religious people, including atheists, are far more gullible and liable to self gratification. After all, god (or the gods) will forgive you no matter what you do, so long as drop a shekel or two in the collection plate.
bradtricker Avatar
bradtricker
Posted: 07.09.10, 02:56 PM
That's extremely patronizing. You think you could go from illiterate to writing essays in a couple months? Ok, try that with a foreign language. Besides, what would be the negatives of teaching a child if the child is having fun learning? There is one problem I have with this talk, it is that he is categorizing. People too often are easy to tossing names. Life is not so simple. But I'm not saying that what was said was useless.
Ken Pullen Avatar
Ken Pullen
Posted: 07.07.10, 08:49 AM
Simply stated, how we view and spend time equates to what we value according to Zimbardo. Personally, I suscribe to the statement by Gandhi that there is more to life than increasing its speed. One however has only limited timeframes in which to accomplish anything; that is, there are deadlines for everything. How I attempt to live with time is to always be one with it so that I am not late to accomplish the things most meaningful to me. Being late can have disastrous effects. For example, I learned too late about the permanent injuries done to me from my parents' negligence because I was taught they were always to be trusted, even when they made injurious statements. Zimbardo speaks about past negative, yet I perceive it as a negative past. Although I know one cannot change the past, and therefore it is useless to dwell upon, this does not mean the past has no effect. My past's effects are negative, and thus regret is inevitable. My permanent injuries have caused me to be unable to physically endure stress over any length of time, among other things. It could be thus said that I am present-oriented because I attempt to control my pain, however I do not see it as being hedonistic but as a matter of survival. I pursue pleasure only as an offset to the pain I endure, otherwise the pain will destroy me at a faster rate. My parents' actions have ruined me to a great physical extent, however I will not as much as it is possible add to their ruination of me. They are wrong, and I work everyday to prove so. The injuries I suffer at the hands of my parents, whether it be physical due to their negligence or mental due to their lies, has made and continues to make it impossible to be future-oriented because one must be in control of oneself in order to reasonably control one's future. While I now control the mental because I know the truth, I have not been and will never be able to control the physical. That is not to say that I make no sacrifices, only that they have limited meaning because I am disabled, and people are defined by how they employ themselves. Ultimately people attempt to define the world around them because it provides familiarity, and therefore comfort. Zimbardo is attempting to define it through time-consciousness. His construct is meant to apply to the most people possible, as it is with all scientists. It however suffers from a reductionist tendency that overlooks deeper, relevant matters that defy simple classification.
mavallarino Avatar
mavallarino
Posted: 07.02.10, 09:59 AM
Quote: Originally Posted by Soylent Indulging in present-hedonism is the pay-off for persisting with future-positive oriented hard work. All work and no play is a meaningless and empty life. Who ever said work had to be meaningless? Indulging is ok, as long as you don't force others to pay for it.
mavallarino Avatar
mavallarino
Posted: 07.02.10, 09:52 AM
Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede This talk had a lot of problems with it. Sweeping generalizations, historical inaccuracies, faulty analogies, and unsupportable conclusions. But hey, the idea sounds nice, right? You're right, (generalisation) is proven with statistics. Often it is bad but with the right approach, methods and big numbers you can relatively be safe in doing it while making decisions. Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede Let's not validate the poorly-constructed, though well-intentioned, premises put forth by the speaker by paying the clip any more attention. This is a conclusion from the elaboration of data. If you read Zimb's papers you will be able to better appreciate the context and his methods which he applies, not to mention their important shortfalls. The issue is always the same, the people you generally observe publicly fall into homogeneous geodemographical and behavioral typesets – which gives rise to many challenges. Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede and a couple nit picks... Nothing's perfect. That’s why we’re here! ;-) Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede Real world doesn't forgive failure? I guess I might as well kill myself after I flunk a quiz, misplay a piano sonata, or run a red light. In the real world one eventually pays for their mistakes. For a video game you can just simply press "reset" - just like in playing music - there are no limits beside your time you dedicate to it. So there is a considerable difference. And lastly: Last time my character was shot in a video game I didn't actually die. Have a go at combat in a real war. Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede And your evidence to support such a preposterous, stereotyping hypothesis is....? Did you say you were a teacher? There are many socio-economic data and much evidence of strong correlations that make it quite convincing. Verifying this would require disabling many game consoles, really not something feasible or acceptable by the general public. Let me know if you find evidence that disproves it though, I would be interested. Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede Becuase all atheists believe and act identically; just like all christians, muslims, and jews have totally compatible sects. Again, these are statistics from observable phenomenon. They don't state "everybody" - read the research papers! You use data to improve decision making and process, not make them perfect. Quote: Originally Posted by jonriede If the book is anything like the talk, I would recommend you not waste your time. It seems like you're taking things a little too seriously.
Soylent Avatar
Soylent
Posted: 07.01.10, 01:03 PM
Honestly, it'd be more productive to cut 10 000 hours out of grade school than skip the 10 000 hours of video gaming. Every single useful think I learned in grade 1 through 9, I could have learnt in my spare time in a couple of months. It is a cruel waste of time we put our kids through until they reach high school and college. Indulging in present-hedonism is the pay-off for persisting with future-positive oriented hard work. All work and no play is a meaningless and empty life.
jonriede Avatar
jonriede
Posted: 07.01.10, 05:53 AM
This talk had a lot of problems with it. Sweeping generalizations, historical inaccuracies, faulty analogies, and unsupportable conclusions. But hey, the idea sounds nice, right? Let's not validate the poorly-constructed, though well-intentioned, premises put forth by the speaker by paying the clip any more attention. and a couple nit picks... Quote: Video games forgive failure, the real world doesn’t. Who has ever beaten a video game on the first try? Real world doesn't forgive failure? I guess I might as well kill myself after I flunk a quiz, misplay a piano sonata, or run a red light. Quote: Socially we would have most likely had several revolutions and many more violent protests if it weren’t for the presence of this technology. And your evidence to support such a preposterous, stereotyping hypothesis is....? Did you say you were a teacher? Quote: I wonder about atheists. I take it that atheists have a time perspective that's more flexible, which ends up being more open to coroporate advertising pushing us in the direction of present hedonism. Becuase all atheists believe and act identically; just like all christians, muslims, and jews have totally compatible sects. Quote: I got Zimbardos book on my shelf but never seem to "have" time to read it. But maybe it's about time I finally do. If the book is anything like the talk, I would recommend you not waste your time.
mavallarino Avatar
mavallarino
Posted: 07.01.10, 12:55 AM
Hours spent on video games: Assuming the average child starts playing video games at 12 years old this equivalent to about 480 weeks for the period up until 21 years. 10000 hours in the same period is equivalent to over 20 hours per week. Perspective: if the same child dedicated the same period working at minimum wage ($8 per hour/part-time), saving everything (at 5% interest rate - which is very reasonable) they would have about $100K saved after turning 21 years old.
mavallarino Avatar
mavallarino
Posted: 07.01.10, 12:30 AM
Zimbardo has touched, as always, on an interesting phenomena. However, I don't think you can conclude anything from these studies for useful insight without also considering the correlations to social contradictions – there are many and some very frightening since they impose strong economical pressures. Much literature has provided us with a strong assumption that proactive and reactive behaviours (assuming futurist and hedonism respectively) can accurately explain socio-economical events. Unfortunately, this is only apparent after the event has happened and would be of little use after. I can vividly remember in a speech George W. Bush, a "traditionalist", made in 2001. He encouraged America to "go shopping, spend money, have fun" which is contrary to traditionalist belief and, not to mention, counter-productive when you're conducting a war to maintain long-term planning. The literature also explains that most wealth historically, notably excessive wealth, hasn't been created with a lot of effort and "control of one's destiny". Rather often it has been created by chance, luck and or acquired (i.e. inheritance). Try doing a comparison between the wealthiest and their counterparts (who are often more talented). Try music stars, actors, investors and even universities. For Universities all that’s needed is to look how much they spend on Marketing (press). When I teach management I always use video games as an example when speaking of failure. Video games forgive failure, the real world doesn’t. Who has ever beaten a video game on the first try? Another note on video games: it can be argued that video games have increased global stability. Due to the distractive and therapeutic nature of video games they keep the younger generation occupied and “at bay”. Socially we would have most likely had several revolutions and many more violent protests if it weren’t for the presence of this technology. As Orwell would have appreciated, “Ignorance is peace, and peace is ignorance”.
Balance Avatar
Balance
Posted: 06.29.10, 01:18 PM
Hi Captain Obvious Honestly, I am not sure if there is a really significant correlation between atheism and time perspective in comparison to -say- culture. I would intuitively estimate that believers tend to be more often past-positive oriented (as believers are more conservative in general) and atheists might be more future-positive oriented, with some fraction of atheists future-negative oriented (likely those who can't really make peace with the idea that they will die one day and exist in a non-experience-state similar to that before they were born). If there is a correlation between time-perspective and religion/atheism I doubt it will show itself primarily through present-hedonism or fatalism. But IF it does, then my bet is definitely that believers score higher on present hedonism, despite the fact that believers might deny themselves some pleasures wich they deem "sinful". Then again I could be completely wrong about absolutely all of my intuitions. I got Zimbardos book on my shelf but never seem to "have" time to read it. But maybe it's about time I finally do.
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