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FORA.tv Series: NYT's 100 Notable Books of 2009

The Goddess of the Market: The Meaning of Ayn Rand

Cato Institute
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Antiks Avatar
Antiks
Posts: 17
Posted: 11.21.09, 02:52 AM
Ayn Rand has been discredited. In light of our current economic crises, which was brought about by deregulation, I fail to see how Ayn is relevant anymore. Even Allen Greenspan admits that he (a Randian) was wrong all along.
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Petri Uusitalo Avatar
Petri Uusitalo
Posts: 4
Posted: 11.21.09, 08:21 AM
How dare you offence my God (sarcasm). All glory to Ayn Rand!
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Louder Avatar
Louder
Posts: 1
Posted: 11.21.09, 11:31 AM
It's amazing you can be completely ignorant of the reality. I could say regulation has been discredited by the collapse of communism.
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Petri Uusitalo Avatar
Petri Uusitalo
Posts: 4
Posted: 11.21.09, 11:34 AM
What! I am objektivist! I hate communism! I just dont worship Ayn Rand as god!
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ajstavely711 Avatar
ajstavely711
Posts: 21
Posted: 11.21.09, 12:38 PM
What is really funny is Ayn Rand was an ATEIST! However, the ignorant right act like she was not. And yes, her ideas on no regulation have been discredited! Her views on religion have been proven beyond a doubt!

So, she was right about some things and really wrong about others!
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wsoutherland Avatar
wsoutherland
Posts: 25
Posted: 11.23.09, 09:11 AM
The economic collapse was caused by consumers buying mortgages they couldn't afford and the housing collapse. Because the government bailed the banks and consumers out, they will just do it again. The banks knew the government would do it. The government bailed out Detroit too so, as a result, they can keep making the same mistakes with no penalty. The US government helped build the car industry in Germany and Japan after the war, which has most contributed to the collapse of the US car industry.

Regulation ensures that only the very rich that can afford to deal with the regulations will prevail. It provides a nice barrier to entry for new players, thus reduces competition. Obama's health plan will lead to more outsourcing, off-shoring and layoffs. The Internet in the US, which has no regulation, has advanced far faster as a result. The Utilities and Car industry have not advanced at all.

Big governments don't solve problems. They make them worse or, at best, delay their resolution.
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LOGOS Avatar
LOGOS
Posts: 6
Posted: 11.24.09, 11:21 AM
Capitalism isn't "right wing". That's the point. It's where at least two people choose to trade (ideally) without price fixing and being cajoled, or as Thomas Sowell explains it, without having to meet the terms and agreement of a third boisterous party in the transaction, known as government. Rand was not 'on the right', and she was no more a fan of conservatism than she was a fan of the Libertarian party itself. She was an intransigent individualist, which may reflect the views of our nations "framers", but hardly fits the model of the neo-right or the neo-fascist left.
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CulturalEngineer Avatar
CulturalEngineer
Posts: 5
Posted: 11.25.09, 06:22 AM
Ayn Rand didn't understand the role of "biological altruism" (and especially its limits") in both economics and governance...
See

Ayn Rand & Alan Greenspan: The Altruism Fly in the Objectivist Ointment

Compensation & The Social Network

The Foundations of Authoritarianism

How would hunter-gatherers run the world? (pssst... They do!)

I've always greatly admired reason. There's still hope for many elements of Ayn Rand's philosophy and even the Cato Institute...

Of course, they'll have to decide whether they want to further reasoned approaches or become some sort of dogmatic religion... dogmatism has been very profitable especially when supporting concentrated interests.

I hope you'll take a look. And let me know where I've messed up!

Chagora & Civilization Systems
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mavallarino Avatar
mavallarino
Posts: 12
Posted: 11.25.09, 08:23 AM
A quick note on regulation: rules based systems are not ideal. They should be principle-based. Players should comply or explain. Very easy to implement, difficult for law makers to accept.

A long note on Ayn Rand: It is subject to interpretation, but AR's philosophy has really nothing to do with the “free market” and/or “capitalism” per se.
The most profound ideas of AR are that of respecting reality, integrity, merit (respecting individual achievements) and morality and the avoidance of contradictions (you are, however, encouraged to change your mind based on valid “objective” information).

The idea of a free-market and capitalism is having the mental freedom to express ideas, have opinions, the opportunity to resolve problems and try to maximise efficiencies when opportunities arise. Example: If you think somebody makes excessive profit, and you think you can do better, you have the right to try – but if you’re wrong it must be you that pay the price. Regulation will only stifle this process and continue to reward incompetence.

AR had always professed that one must never consume more than one produces and we have a mind to produce ideas and to solve problems. This idea still proves valid since there has been nothing to falsify it.

“Interests” have different meaning to different people. Altruism could have four different meanings to four different people and likewise for selfishness. Helping others is accepted as long as there is a long-term net benefit for both parties. Who wants to live in a sub-standard society and live with ignorance? It's more important which the way you help - are you encouraging idea generation and personal development or redistributing free handouts? Government programs can work, and have worked, but will only function correctly if there is an adequate system that truly adds value and responsibility.

AR’s philosophy isn’t perfect, nothing is in the short term, but it helps to understand how morality and personal development could possibly be sustained, why they are essential and with the exclusion of metaphysics. However I do agree that sometimes the wealthiest or most successful are not always the most able or the most deserving, but life isn’t always fair. However this is how it is when there are governments that punish good decision makers that behaved rationally and impose rule-based systems that cripple society.

The universal problem, therefore, is ignorance. Ignorance should be not be confused with mental limitations or stupidity, but simply defined as ignoring. From extensive literature and rigorous studies, today’s society has been very mentally inflexible and lazy (or distracted) and has tendencies to misuse information, fail to understand problems and take short-sighted decisions mostly on invalid biased opinions, traditions, and/or beliefs. We must first resolve these issues, only then we will be able move on.
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Antiks Avatar
Antiks
Posts: 17
Posted: 11.26.09, 02:57 AM
Yeah, blame it on consumers. Why were they given loans they couldn't afford in the first place? Ah, because they gate keepers wanted it that way. You guys completely ignore the reality that deregulation over the last thirty years destroyed the economy. Look no further than Phil Gramm.
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