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Dispelling U.S. Healthcare Myths: Sally Pipes

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jeff1967 Avatar
jeff1967
Posts: 3
Posted: 11.05.09, 05:13 AM
What about these Americans, who do not have medical insurance, because they cannot afford it.
What's their waiting period?
Lifetime?
It is still more than 17 weeks.
Isn't it?
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Threeli Avatar
Threeli
Posts: 1
Posted: 11.05.09, 05:48 AM
Well put jeff1967

Yes the wait time here in Canada is a little silly and needs to be fixed but the thing is most of the time you pay $0 for any of the procedures mentioned. Even if you can afford them they would costly.
The other thing is the reason that the wait is that long is from lack of doctors. I'm sure it's a simplistic analysis but the main reason is because of the huge amount of money that can be made south of the border.
Ask most Canadians that aren't a staunch conservative what system they prefer and you get "from my cold dead hands".
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Ara Avatar
Ara
Posts: 1
Posted: 11.05.09, 01:54 PM
All people can get medical treatment at ER's , Community clinics, and community hospitals without having to prove that they a) have insurance, and or b) that they can pay. Medical bills from hospitals or these providers are not enforceable or collectible and cannot be used to force anyone into bankruptcy.

So, no, it's not the same as waiting 17 weeks (or a lifetime) to get an appointment with a primary care physician (the 17 weeks are completely unrelated to any length of waiting for TREATMENT).

And, btw, the same is NOT TRUE in Canada. If you do not have gov't insurance, you will NOT be seen in any ER or clinic until you PROVE that you can PAY for any and all procedures.

I went to college in B.C. and nearly lost my life to underfunded, over crowded, pathetically third world "quality" care that poses as "health care". And to boot, doctors and nurses went on strike twice a year every year I was there, in which no treatments at all took place. I was lucky, I could fly to Stanford and get GREAT medical treatment and also found fantastic doctors in Seattle. I would have died in Canada if I had not. At least in the U.S.A. I would have received care at my hospital's ER even if I could not prove whether I could pay-- I wouldn't die.

And..."HELLO????".... the so called 'brain drain' that usurps all of Canada's doctors and nurses is a direct result of government run programs that eliminate personal incentives to remain in Canada. Do you want to tell intelligent people that they cannot do what they determine is best for their lives and that because they are Canadian they must remain in Canada to work for less money, in bad conditions, and under government "strangulations" that make success (as in keeping people alive and healthy) an unlikely event??? Wow.

My only disagreement (and it is an easily mediated solution) with Ms. Pipe's analysis is over tort reform. Unfortunately, limiting the amount of damages that can be awarded does nothing to stem the tide of litigation, in fact, the only real beneficiary is the doctor's insurance company-- ok, it relieves the anxiety of the doctor... but the patient still suffers the supposed injustice or debilitation from things 'gone awry'. What I propose are mandatory exit exams for all medical students, to hopefully, insure that there is a minimum level of aptitude and ability in all graduating physicians. There are some REALLY REALLY bad doctors out there and if they can't be responsible for their professional actions, then the school they graduated from should. Additionally, I would like all scores to be public so we can research "just how smart our doctors are" before we let them go fishing about in our innards.
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Richard Drummond Avatar
Richard Drummond
Posts: 3
Posted: 11.05.09, 04:24 PM
Sally Pipes is just another neoconservative with an axe to grind . Her assessment of Canadian health care is at best distorted ,at worst , a fabrication . It would be interesting to know how many health corporations fund the Pacific Research Institute . As an Canadian who has used the Canadian health system I realize it is not perfect but it is better than the American for profit system.
We travel south in the winter and the most frequent question we are asked is about the Canadian health care system. Pipes is nothing more than a spin doctor for MHOs.
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Hillwalker Avatar
Hillwalker
Posts: 1
Posted: 11.05.09, 11:39 PM
It's easy to cherry-pick horror stories. But I'm a Canadian, I have never had an experience like what Ms Pipes describes. Our system has serious challenges, and will have to meet them, but it is essentialy sound. The biggest threat comes from medical business looking for a profit, and from political extremists with an axe to grind.
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JimH Avatar
JimH
Posts: 3
Posted: 11.05.09, 11:43 PM
If Canada's healthcare system is so bad, and ours is so good, why is it that on the CIA list of life expectancy worldwide Canada ranks 10th while the U.S. ranks 50th? Are they inherently more healthy than we? Check it out.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
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jmcardle Avatar
jmcardle
Posts: 1
Posted: 11.06.09, 12:06 AM
The Canadian system does have it's fair share of problems: the unendurably long hospital wait times in urban centers for low-priority health problems, the lack of family physicians, etc. These are very real issues that need to be addressed.

However, I always find it disingenuous when certain key individuals use these problems as a means to invalidate the whole system; usually to then further the rather odd argument that receiving no care is better than having (not-quite-perfect) care.
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Craigipedia Avatar
Craigipedia
Posts: 5
Posted: 11.06.09, 08:43 AM
That has been my argument. I've waited, on seperate occassions, for 4 months, 8 months, and 1 year to have in order - a torn ligament in my ankle looked at, a new inhaler prescribed, and a normal checkup because my dad lost his job and I lost my insurance... I'll wait weeks on a list, it's better than waiting a lifetime.

This woman seems like a right-wing plant
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Sarah the Green Avatar
Sarah the Green
Posts: 2
Posted: 11.07.09, 08:56 PM
Hospital emergency rooms only stabilize people and then send them home. They do not treat people's diabetes long term or give them the chemo they need to stay alive, or do any other treatment that can keep them out of emergency rooms with catastrophic but treatable illnesses (often far too late to save their lives). 45,000 people die each year because they don't have access to the health care they need. Millions of people lose their homes and go bankrupt because of medical bills they can't afford to pay.

It's a lie to say that people without insurance can get the medical care they need, because they cannot. I know because my husband and I are not able to get insurance because we are self employed and we have pre-existing conditions. If we could get medical care without going bankrupt, we would do it. We can't.

And who do people think are paying for the emergency room visits that the patients can't pay for? Everyone is paying for their care. And that kind of care costs a lot more than providing those people with adequate care up front *before* they become catastrophically ill, and in a setting like a clinic or doctor's office where care is far less expensive than in a hospital emergency room.

The kind of health care system that Ara advocates is far far more expensive than making sure that everyone has access to good care, and that's why people in the US pay more for health care than any country in the developed world. Twice as much as the next most expensive country.

I'm going to repeat that number I gave earlier, just to shame those who think everyone in the US has access to adequate medical care.

EVERY YEAR, 45,000 PEOPLE IN THE US DIE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE.

Shame on you, those who think we don't need universal care in the US.
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Antiks Avatar
Antiks
Posts: 17
Posted: 11.08.09, 04:45 AM
This is just more propaganda from the for-profit insurance industry. Healthcare in this country is terrible. I'm sure that some folks would rather be on a waiting list than not having insurance. SOME healthcare is better than NO healthcare.
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