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Filmmaker Michael Moore on Capitalism: A Love Story

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Mark Sullivan Avatar
Mark Sullivan
Posts: 160
Posted: 01.06.10, 09:07 PM
Am-expat,

You are incorrect on quality of life issues, but I am sure you have some statistics that prove your view - Western Europe, in your estimation, is the future, and it works! The problem is, Western European nations are decadent, aging, dying societies. Why are birth rates declining in most Western European nations? If teh United States closed up its European bases and asked the Europeans to defend themselves and take care of the problems in their own back yard, these countries would fall like dominoes. You all sat around and watched the violence in the Balkans and all you could decide was to ask the UN to intervene. You all will not fight for your freedom, because you have willingly given all of it up in the interest of comfort and security. The citizens of most Wesdtern European countries have basically turned their States into parents, taking care of them and all of the major responsibilities of being a responsible adult.

Your bloated welfare states, generous (irrational but generous) asylum and immigration policies and multicultural bent are slowly degrading your cultures. The demographic changes in your countries will empty your government coffers because the State is too large, intrusive and unsustainable. Do you think the flood of Muslim immigrants to Malmo, Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt and London's suburbs will happily pay for your government mandated pensions, vacations and healthcare for a bunch of European retirees? These immigrants are your future because Western European nations, with their soft nihilism, decadence and post-Christian societies no longer believe their countries are worth fighting for.

You are correct, however that the government elementary and secondary schools in America do an abysmal job of educating our children. This is not a result of captalism, however. It is an intrusion into the freedom of American citizens. Our Federal and State governments have no place getting involved in the education of our children. This could be the starting point of a real revolution - trimming back the scope of government by getting the Federal Government's failed experimentation on our kids into the trash bin.
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Am-Expat Avatar
Am-Expat
Posts: 14
Posted: 01.05.10, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDude
NeilW wrote, "How many other countries in the world would allow such a chasm in the earnings of the top and bottom of the scale."

Ummmm, probably close to 99% are significantly worse than the USA. Not saying the States don't have room for improvement but such a statement begs the question, "Have you traveled the globe much?"
You have not, evidently lived in Europe, Scandinavia or any of the other developed countries. You might be unaware that corporations are prevented from dominating public policy in ALL the countries where the quality of life is important and surpasses the US.
The image Americans have of themselves as being leaders in high standard of living is just plain illusion. Maybe it was true a few decades ago, but the US has spiraled downward unbelievably fast.
The stress level, the lack of citizen influence on public policy, the personal insecurity in important life components, lack of adult competency have all contributed to making life harder, less secure, less happy, less healthy, less informed and less democratic than just about any developed country.
It is a joke that worries many people in other countries that the US population as a whole has become so angry and ignorant. No good can come from that, and the most recent decade amply illustrates that concern is justified. Other than prisons and financial instruments of gambling, is there ANY industry the US leads in now?
I live in another country now but visit back home to the US a couple times a year and it saddens me to see the rapid decline of the US. There is no reason for it that is not self-inflicted. I regret that I need to self-censor every word I utter while in the US because any open dialog or even casual conversation on a street corner is likely to erupt into anger. Life did not used to be that stressful in the US. Every conversation shows the dismal state of general knowledge and competency of American adults. Why are 34% functionally illiterate? How can a peoples self govern when they are so uninformed and filled with bizarre myth and artifact of propaganda? It is far worse than what Moore suggests and only after spending time outside the US does it become crystal clear. The US is not a democracy anymore, opinion has replaced fact and knowledge as guiding beacons and "dumb" has been glorified and informed wisdom has been denigrated as "elitism".
Life is just more equitable, more democratic, freer, happier, cultured and more secure in almost any other developed country right now. Living with images of a strong and free aware citizenry enjoying the fruits of hard work and innovation as being the norm in the US is wishful thinking of days not long past, 20-30 years marking the beginning of the decline.
I hope you people figure something out, 290,000,000 angry, fearful and increasingly ignorant people could be very dangerous to the rest of the world.
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dmanvfro Avatar
dmanvfro
Posts: 2
Posted: 12.30.09, 09:18 AM
I can understand both sides of the argument seen on this page and why you would think that way, but try logic or possibly common sense with me in this reasoning.

First starting with Michael Moore, we all have to understand that if you saw the movie, everything was true and based off reliable data and research. Dogma is defined as a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof, and this is invalid. We also need to understand that much like the people he fights, Michael Moore used some forms of propaganda to smear the truth while only using one sided arguments. Finally, whether we can accept it or not, every problem addressed in his movies holds a significance. Think about it, Columbine- The safety of guns in this country and school violence. Sicko- The health of our entire nation. I think deep down we all know that getting these topics a positive change in exchange for slight propaganda "IS" the best thing for our country including those who despise him.

Now for the News, again everything they report is based off reliable research data and film. But, its not the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth. News companies are not government funded, they require the money off sponsors and advertisements to survive, and since all executives go after the money, they started conforming to what gets the most ratings. This is where the famous sex and violence phrase comes from. If you put any news team in a city and there was pollution that completely blocked out the sun, then a guy who didn't have his gun permit at the street corner, we all know what they would do. These people are not thinking about informing their country they're thinking about what makes them the most money, we all need to realize this. As far as the paper itself, that data Michael Moore stated was not skewed. Again, these are businesses out to make money and not inform America for the greater good. This is why Michael Moore is after them, not for his personal benefit although money can corrupt anyone.
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dmanvfro Avatar
dmanvfro
Posts: 2
Posted: 12.30.09, 09:14 AM
I can understand both sides of the argument seen on this page and why you would think that way, but try logic or possibly common sense with me in this reasoning.

First starting with Michael Moore, we all have to understand that if you saw the movie, everything was true and based off reliable data and research. Dogma is defined as a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof, and this is invalid. We also need to understand that much like the people he fights, Michael Moore used some forms of propaganda to smear the truth while only using one sided arguments. Finally, whether we can accept it or not, every problem addressed in his movies holds a significance. Think about it, Columbine- The safety of guns in this country and school violence. Sicko- The health of our entire nation. I think deep down we all know that getting these topics a positive change in exchange for slight propaganda "IS" the best thing for our country including those who despise him.

Now for the News, again everything they report is based off reliable research data and film. But, its not the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth. News companies are not government funded, they require the money off sponsors and advertisements to survive, and since all executives go after the money, they started conforming to what gets the most ratings. This is where the famous sex and violence phrase comes from. If you put any news team in a city and there was pollution that completely blocked out the sun, then a guy who didn't have his gun permit at the street corner, we all know what they would do. These people are not thinking about informing their country they're thinking about what makes them the most money, we all need to realize this. As far as the paper itself, that data Michael Moore stated was not skewed. Again, these are businesses out to make money and not inform America for the greater good. This is why Michael Moore is after them, not for his personal benefit although money can corrupt anyone.
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FreeDem Avatar
FreeDem
Posts: 1
Posted: 12.27.09, 09:16 AM
It occurs to me that a person who deliberately misunderstands what was said by and about what Michael more has said and stands for, particularly when he runs his own shop by the rules he encourages, perhaps it is that person who posts only epithets who is so bound up in his own dogma and self righteous ignorance as to not be able to understand the least thing.
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herasheron Avatar
herasheron
Posts: 1
Posted: 12.20.09, 03:19 PM
Talks like this one keep me coming back to Fora.tv. It makes me feel like I am not alone.
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Mark Sullivan Avatar
Mark Sullivan
Posts: 160
Posted: 12.18.09, 08:51 PM
Mr. Moore needs to learn somthing about basic economics. He is ignorant.
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Mark Sullivan Avatar
Mark Sullivan
Posts: 160
Posted: 12.17.09, 07:18 PM
Also, Mr. Moore - Mossadeq was NOT "democratically elected." He was appointed by the Iranian parliament and given the thumbs up by the Shah.

Could this be another case of, "Tell a lie often enough and . . ."
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pantherstance Avatar
pantherstance
Posts: 1
Posted: 12.17.09, 12:36 PM
As a current business school student this made me feel justified in my feelings towards financial markets. To base your career on the value of a coin seems to me somewhat unfulfilling.
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Mark Sullivan Avatar
Mark Sullivan
Posts: 160
Posted: 12.16.09, 10:19 PM
Michael Moore piously states, "I have never said, I hate George W. Bush." He just made a film accusing him of starting a war so his friends could make money. His populism has made him a rich man. In one of his "just" societies, like Cuba, whose health care system he admires, would have been imprisoned or worse for making an equivalent film about the Castro regime, were he a Cuban citizen comrade.

Perfection in a society is impossible, as human nature is imperfect.
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