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Marriage Equality: Panel Discussion on Proposition 8

Commonwealth Club
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jensenjoe Avatar
jensenjoe
Posts: 2
Posted: 10.10.08, 07:07 PM
I live in Florida, and the marriage issue is on our ballot as well this year. However, I am insulted over the opinion of Donna Ryu who believes that one or two Judges can't be convinced to go against it, or make the wrong decision about it, but 695,000 thousand citizens who would vote in favor of eliminating it in California would. In other words when we have a majority of three of out of five county or City Commissioners, she would agree that they can't get decisions on growth issues, or any issue wrong, but 695,000 people could.
I believe that citizens have the right to say yes or no to the Marriage issue, or any issue that would get 695,000 signatures, and a Judge should not have the right to overturn that decision, because it would be taking my right, and the other 694,999 people who signed the petition.
That's what's wrong with this Country these days, citizens rights can be ignored even if you are the vast majority, because they believe they are better than citizens, they know better, and it doesn't matter to them, because they are right and the vast majority is wrong. I would imagine that Donna Ryu would say, don't bother to vote this November, because your majority opinion doesn't really matter to me, or anyone else who thinks like me. How arrogant is that?
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fletcher Avatar
fletcher
Posts: 0
Posted: 10.16.08, 08:22 PM
US Constitution, Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:
"...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States: nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

In response to previous post:
All one has to do is briefly review Greek history to understand the hazards of unchecked democracy. Using the logic of "majority rules" we would still have numerous civil rights problems in this country (e.g. segregation or slavery in the south).

An abbreviated response to "majority rules" logic:
If 500 people want to take your cake, and you don't want them too...well by George majority rules! You have no right to that cake if the majority wants to take it from you, right? BUT WAIT, here comes the voice of reason. Someone intervenes and says, "All 500 of you already have cake, so eat it and leave this person alone." And light bulbs go off in everyones' heads and they realize it's not their place to tell others how to live their lives or in this case what to do with their belongings. Then everyone gets along and they all live happily ever after...

How this is even up for debate in this day and age is incomprehensible to me
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heybd Avatar
heybd
Posts: 51
Posted: 10.31.08, 06:34 PM
@jensenjoe: You seem to be advocating for the tyranny of the majority. It's a sticky situation to just say "majority rules, case closed." I don't want to cede my freedom to the mob mentality. Outlawing gay marriage denies gay people their right to liberty and arguably property as quoted in the fourteenth amendment by fletcher. Having legal gay marriage does no such thing to those who may oppose it.
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David McCoy Avatar
David McCoy
Posts: 0
Posted: 11.10.08, 02:27 AM
This is the most informative you can get!
I'm a gay latino man from Los Angeles. It's nov 9-08. I'm deeply sad that the lies of certain religious groups took away my rights, but I must say that people like these in this conference I am so proud of. I hope this prop 8 get overturned by our constitution because the majority can oppress a minority.
Thank you guys!
I wish every person who is against gay marriage could see this video.
LOVE will prevail!
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hanklwo Avatar
hanklwo
Posts: 0
Posted: 11.14.08, 11:09 PM
There’s a great video I saw on San Francisco IAM on Proposition 8. It shows both sides of the issue and what it means for same sex couples in California. It’s a must see for those concerned about the issue.

I’d recommend checking it out: http://www.sanfranciscoiam.com/videos/d80e34400efa

They also got a lot of other interesting video journalism video.
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AlienIquirer Avatar
AlienIquirer
Posts: 48
Posted: 11.24.08, 06:43 PM
Whenever I hear the word "marriage" I think of two people who form a contract with the State because they don't trust eachother in case of a split or dispute, and need a higher being to resolve it for their case.

Two non-needy people who have everything they want and truly just love each other is a rarity. The best example that comes to mind is Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell who have been domestic partners since 1983.

When someone is free, you know it because they are not married. Michael Bloomberg is another example of a free enlightened man.
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niatek Avatar
niatek
Posts: 5
Posted: 01.03.09, 08:48 PM
Donna Ryu explained it pretty precisely and Fletcher does a nice job supporting that position. I would say that it is also good to note that this country was founded as a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy, meaning it is the law that we uphold rather than popular opinion.

Martin Luther King Jr. said it best, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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Marcelo Avatar
Marcelo
Posts: 2
Posted: 05.28.09, 06:07 AM
I'm curious about something, I'm for gay marriage because I don't care: if 2 people love each other and want to entire this "marriage" scenario with ideology that somehow it validates more. And the analyzing of the term marriage by Therese Stewart I feel is spot on of how empowering it can be for a couple to say that they are married. My question is..

Why not just say it..

I did see a lot of religious groups spread misinformation about prop 8 but the interesting thing I noticed was I never saw 1 TV ad, sign, billboard, newspaper ad, etc countering it. Now I see plenty of information countering what religious groups put out there but it made me question "Where was all this BEFORE!?" It's closing the barn door after the horses get out. If you are a group wanting to equal rights, and just expect to get it with littler effort can you really be mad at the idea that your cause has lost because of arrogance?
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Aaberg Avatar
Aaberg
Posts: 9
Posted: 05.31.09, 10:50 AM
"It's closing the barn door after the horses get out. If you are a group wanting to equal rights, and just expect to get it with littler effort can you really be mad at the idea that your cause has lost because of arrogance?"

It's baffling that you don't see the glaring arrogance in what you just wrote yourself. How can it be the fault of good people, that bigots run around lying and whining?
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TreeLuvBurdpu Avatar
TreeLuvBurdpu
Posts: 20
Posted: 05.31.09, 01:39 PM
I get a little chuckle when I hear everyone in favor of gay marriage say it is for freedom and equality. But if I say "poligamy" they say, "invade their compound, take their children and give them to the state." And I say "what about freedom and equality." And someone will always say, "poligamy and gay marriage is not the same thing!" as if we are in grade school. Then I say "homosexual marriage is not the same as heterosexual marriage." Then they call me all sorts mean words nobody understands like "arrogant" (which is the bon mot) and "facist".

Nobody wants to preform surgery on the whole being of marriage. Everyone just wants to add their little appendage to it. Or perhaps they want to remove it's gender organs because they find them distasteful. But is anyone considering the nature of the ancient being of marriage that they are operating on?
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