Joseph Pascal: Welcome ladies and gentleman. My name is Joe Pascal, President Oxonian Society would first like to thank Lindsey Probet and the Princeton club for their kind hospitality. Up coming Oxonian society events include Kathleen Turner, Richard Louis, Richard Dawkins, Jim Wolfensohn, Deepak Chopra amongst others. This evening I will be conducting a conversational style of interview with Lou Dobbs and then I will open it up to audience questions. Lou Dobbs is the anchor and managing editor of CNN. Lou Dobbs Tonight and a founding member of the network in 1980 as well as CNN's financial news division. Mr. Dobbs attracts CNN's second largest audience. Mr. Dobbs calls himself an independent populist, critic of excesses of capitalism which he identifies as globalization, offshore outsourcing, legal immigration, free trade deals big business influence in government. Mr. Dobbs has won nearly every major award for television journalism. Ladies and gentlemen please join me in warmly welcoming Lou Dobbs. Firstly Lou, we really appreciate you coming out this evening right after the show, - it's almost like you are in the campaign trail doing one of these silly things of one fundraising - one fundraising event day after another but luckily there is no fundraising here at all. My first question is, what do you think that American spirit needs to be awakened?
Lou Dobbs: How closely have you been even watching the presidential campaign? One of the things is I travel around the country. That is been remarkable is the lack of enthusiasm that is manifest for even the frontrunners of these candidates and I and I am talking literally around the - around the country, every audience I talk with, the folks I meet. They are just - this is a peculiar presidential election, you are in that regard. That's one of the reasons that I think that there is some some issue here about awakening the American spirit - as we we are back to 2004, we just three years ago we elected - in this case we reelected the president and we have a lot of excitement around that. American spirit was just robust I thought in 2004 in which we had a choice because of the the great facility of these two partisan parties, the republican party and the democratic party. This great diversified nation of ours had a choice between two candidates that emerged from 300 million people. So so interesting and unique in their characteristics, both sons of privilege, both graduates of Yale university, both members of Skull and Bones. You you remember how exited you were, how- how the American spirit was just blossoming in 2004. That's one of the reasons. The fact that too many people I have decided that their only their only default position is to go out and vote for somebody. These two political parties are offering candidates that are frankly unoriginal there are cautious to the point of being absolutely stagnant in their proposals and their vision for the future. I defy any one in this room to tell me what anyone of the frontrunners has said about his or her vision of America ten years distant. I am not suggesting that everyone has to come on like say John F Kennedy in 1960. what I am suggesting that this is a time for us to set aside banality, vicious rhetoric and nonsense and really start talking about the American people because we are in a crisis in this country, a crisis with this - that is born first of the lack of a representation for the people in our government and that is the basis of the legitimacy of this government a democratic free enterprise government, a a representative republic which requires the consent of the government and what we have now is the apathy and the acquiescence of the government and that is when I think the American spirit must be reawakened and so on.
Joseph Pascal: Why have you tirelessly presented certain issues to the American people?
Lou Dobbs: Because I believe those issues to be the most fundamentally important issues to the American people. Those issues are and for that we need to to do a review here without question. The issue of representation of middle class in this country. The basic terms of the democracy is the representation of the will of the majority. It is precisely the majority in this country and those people who define themselves as middle class and that's 95 percent of this in this country by the way. Who are being utterly ignored by our elected officials in Washington DC and I think to - to the peril of the nation. The other issues that stand from that issue are without question, failing public education is failing an entire generation of Americans. Failure to find invest in our public infrastructure, a failure to come to terms with the realty of free trade in its high cost. The loss of millions of jobs to free trade so called and to the out sourcing and off shoring of production and jobs to cheap oversees labor markets. The the conduct of the war in Iraq, a an articulated the strategy for the conduct of the war on terror. The list goes on but those are the issues that I think are for critical importance, I understand border security, illegal immigration among them. The issue of natural sovereignty in what this nation will look like ten years distant. Who will we be, who should we be and go from there.
Joseph Pascal: What is your prescription to the present political system?
Lou Dobbs: Well I happen to be a supporter of the two party political system, I just find these two political parties at this point in time to be absolutely a disaster. Think about if you will, these two political parties have produced John F Kerry, George W Bush. People get exited about about that kind of vibrant candidacy - coming on the scene, I know there is a lot of revisionist history associated with the election of 2000, in which we saw the first contested presidential election in a 130 years in this country, but I will submit to you George W Bush and Al- Gore represented only a slight improvement in the diversity, that would succeed that race in that - Gore went to Harvard instead of Yale. It is difficult for me to understand why there is this orthodoxy that has grown up in this country over the past quarter century in particular. Just suggest that this country should be governed by identifiable family dynasties whether they be Kennedy's or whether they be Bush's or Clinton's. I am a little uncomfortable with that because I am one of those silly son of a guns who actually paid attention in the sixth grade civics class, who actually believed what he was taught and who believes in the responsibility of all of us to be engaged in a participatory democracy. I don't see how it is contributed to the longevity of this free enterprise democracy or represented republic do allow it to devolve into the hands of two or three families over the course over a quarter century. In point of fact if we are to elect Hillary Clinton president next year, we would have the opportunity to assure that either a Bush or a Clinton was in the white house as either president or vice president over the course of 36 years. I don't sense the same excitement in this room that I personally feel and what I don't understand is why the main stream media is not focusing on that very basic reality. How is it that the this nation could even permit itself to consider a family dynasty, is there any is there any sort of projection that we could sort of infer from the cover of people magazine when we are watching ten year old in the death of Princess Di that there is this fascination with prince Harry and prince whatever and - I mean I mean you know that is fun for a little escapism on the cover of people magazine, it gets a little makes me a little nervous on when I see Bush's and Clinton's and Kennedy's on the covers of Time and News Week in particular.
Joseph Pascal: In your book you comment about the overreaching presidency. Do you care to comment?
Lou Dobbs: Sure, I believe the presidency to be overreaching. I believe this president has been imperious in both as a the attitude and the demeaner that he is brought to the office which is difficult to do when you consider his challenges with syntax and grammar. There is a certain dignity usually connoted with imperiousness that this this president doesn't really posses because of his difficulties with the language and by the way I don't mean to make light of the man's language and his difficulties with it because frankly it betrays the level of thinking that I take far more seriously and it is the absence of that kind of responsible reason and analysis and conclusion that I think is most threatening to the nation. I am not one of those people who really gives a damn about this president's legacy. I am I am more concerned about this nations future and getting through the next fourteen months of this presidency with out serious damage, it is remarkable to me that today we learn that the national intelligence estimate concludes that Iran ended its nuclear weapons program in 2003 although continuing a low grade enrichment program which is continuing through now and and then to near future. This is the the conclusion of the NIE that at a time when both the vice president and the president have been talking in very bellicose terms about the military options in constraining Iran in its nuclear ambitions, I I found this to be deeply troubling. I am no more by the way confident of this NIE that I am in the other previous intelligence estimate but the but the reality is public administration policy is absolute in variance with what is now republic NIE that has been of course in circulation in this administration for the past several months on a on a secret basis.
Joseph Pascal: Why do you think we have turned into a deader nation?
Lou Dobbs: In part because of the economic policies that have been followed by this country since 1976, in part by the runaway mass consumption of economy that has been insisted upon us national media, by advertising media, by the the culture of consumerism that is of course the creation of corporate America and their rationale is obviously understandable, they need to drive and market demand and have done so but at this point we are borrowing just about four billion dollars a day simply to support our appetite, perform produced goods in this country. We are a $12 trillion consumer economy that is losing its identity as a as both a nation and as a market place because we are watching manufacturing jobs being eliminated from this economy, middle class jobs being eliminated through outsourcing, off shoring of production, outsourcing to cheap labor markets. So those are some of the issues with which we have to condemn.
Joseph Pascal: What are the factors you would attribute to the declining education system?
Lou Dobbs: The factors are are many but amongst them, I has been in this the partisanship that I blame for many of our political ills, the partisanship that has been meant to today, republicans believe on - and I believe and should tell you, I believe absolutely in public education fervently, passionately and completely as the great equalizer in this society and I believe the partisanship is given is given too many people an opportunity to betray that public education system. For example the conservatives believe in something they like to call choice - offering vouchers to students who happen to be in the schools that are "Failing". The liberals prefer magnets in chartered schools, for schools that they believe are superior for a few and I consider in that I both both of liberal and the conservative responses to our crisis in public education to be elitist in the extreme, I believe there should be only one choice in public education and that is absolute excellence in public education for every school in every community in this country period. The idea that there is even and I am I am - I covered so much in the way of politics over national politics, over the course of the past almost thirty years that every time I hear the word bipartisan I want to dig a foxhole, make sure all of my keys in my wallet are secure and safe but one of the great bipartisan efforts of the past decade has been "No Child Left Behind". No child left behind, begs the issue, the reality is we are leaving literally millions of young Americans behind, the national mainstream media does not want to focus upon the crisis in public education because it's it's a little dull - it's a little like free trade, the things that we cover on my broadcast, we dare to be dull, but there is unfortunately nothing dell about the reality that literally half of all black students of this country, nearly half of all Hispanic students in this country are dropping out of high school and I notice that there are quite a few white faces in this audience, so I feel literally thinking about education in anyway understand that overall a third of our high school students are dropping out of high school. This is the future of this nation. We are failing this generation of Americans and there is just there is just no excuse for what we are permitting to continue. I have actually had a number of people as I travel around, I was in Detroit this past week. Mayor Kilpatrick is doing a great job trying to continue the school system, an economy that is devastated, the state economy that is devastated and and the mayor is dealing with an educational system that has in Detroit - the worst imaginable numbers to deal with. 25 percent 25 percent of our high school is graduating. Drop out rates is 75 percent - and you know what the democratic parties response has been? Well the state of Michigan wanted to move up its primary so there it's stripping them with their delegates and candidate are not coming into Michigan. And I'll tell ya - I don't think there is any excuse for either senate majority leader, the speaker of the house or the president of the United States not spending a lot of time in the state of Michigan to deal with the issues and the impact of failed policies in trade, failed polices in education, failed policies in innovation and entrepreneurialism in a state that is literally devastated, it's inexcusable and I have been to watch a food fight, a partisan food fight in the democratic party over the time we get the primary, it is trivializing what is nothing less than a a very real crisis.
Joseph Pascal: Why has religion versus state conflicts dominated the media in the recent years?
Lou Dobbs: I think in part because it's like gay marriage, gun control, abortion - it it serves for some as a a significant wedge issue. Frankly I think it's an important issue because I think religion right now is one of the few countervailing influences to a host of negatives in our society and I am not frankly not resolved on the issue of the role of religion in our public square in the degree to which it is permissible but I have I have to tell you, I would like to see more rabbis, more priests, more ministers or more preachers with a voice that was honest sincere being articulated in our society because too many of the voices we are hearing are strident in the case of politics and superficial or simply acquiescent or now outright negative in the case of the national media so I am not sure that that would be the answer you would expect but it's one that I would prefer. In in the in terms of wedge issues, we continue to be a national medium - excuse me - a national media that is fascinated by wage issues and we as a people, as a voting public tend to be even though it's straight forwardly, we acknowledge and understand each of us I believe in this room for example would acknowledge of those wedge issues are absolutely a diversion for the politic from the challenges that confront this nation and we use the people, but we continue to tolerate it and we watch people react - I will give you an example in this room, I will make - I will make you a $100 bet - alright a $50 bet. How many of you support the right to bear arms? Look around the room if you will folks, alright how many of you support gay marriage? Look around the room again I would say the marginal is slightly higher for gay marriage. I believe that that responses impart and I hope you will forgive me for my presumption but I believe that response in both cases is a response of some sorts of implicated perceptions that are manifest on the national media, in partisan politics and have very little to do with something I believe that each of us in this room could agree upon. How many of you believe wholeheartedly in the 14th amendment? The constitution of the United States? Raise your hands. See, I happen to be one of those people and I don't argue about it and I just had to struggle with it a bit but get us some - move the partisanship aside and I love to do that because I am an independent populist and I can't stand either party. I have got an advent, I just can't stand it. I want everyone in this room to be sure you are registered independent by tomorrow afternoon - I hope you will consider that at least but the reality is I happen to believe - again I said you know I am - I am a guy who believe in that sixth grade civic class. I happen to believe that we all have the opportunity of sharing two basic national values and they are very simple and this is a good thing because I am a simple guy. A television journalist you shouldn't get complicated for television journalist and I happen to be born in a perfect country for it's for simple minded folks like me. We can define our our nation with two basic values. One, individual liberty and freedom and two, equality - equality of rights, equality of opportunity, both economic and educational, does anybody dispute that? That's us, we are simple folks. Until we get involved with gay marriage, gun control, abortion. The reality as I support gay marriage and the right to bear arms for the same reason. I deem both to be constitutional guarantees. And I have no apologies to make that anyone and I will not equivocate and I will not posture my defense and support of both rights. I hope you will consider doing the same thing as you evaluate where we are in this society. Where we are as a you know we are beset by these partisan perspectives but the reality is if we will be just as zealous of one another's rights as we are over - in asserting our rights, as we are on our own. We can go a long way toward making this a far better country in a very short order but we got to honestly evaluate where we are. You ask about as a detonation we are super power with out question but we are super power that is been in conflict in Iraq and a third world nation with a population of 25 million people for longer than in took the United States and its allies do win world war two. How many of you believe that this is the nation at war?. How many of you believe that we are really just a military it war? How many of you think that is right that we have had tax cuts instead of tax increases? But a time when almost 4000 young Americans have lost their lives, almost 30,000 young Americans have been wounded, 13,000 have been almost very seriously. How many of you believe that this country are to have shared sacrifice and shared burdens. Why in hell are our political leaders and our candidates with presidents of both parties talking about precisely that because until you and I come to terms with this, as citizens and all our fellow citizens come to terms with the reality that we are shirking our responsibilities by by averting our eyes from this - from the truth and permitting those who would lead this into the new this new century. We can't begin to resolve the the problems, the challenges that faces nor can we live up to our responsibilities in my judgment as citizens.
Joseph Pascal: What was it like growing up in Texas and Idaho after your fathers business unfortunately encountered hard times?
Lou Dobbs: Well, you mean growing up poor in Texas and and in Idaho? I have to tell you I cannot lament my childhood at all although a Lamborghini about when I was 18 would have been a good idea I think. The great thing is - so many kids around me where every bit as poor as I was. You know the uniform of the day I mean we had sort of a defecto uniform when I was growing up out west. Nearly every one of my buddies, we all wore the same thing, we had - all had on a pair of of wranglers because we couldn't afford the fancy Levis and a T-shirt. I mean- and if you really spiffy you can get over to JCPenny's and pick up a plaid shirt of some kind. I - I got to fish, I got to hunt I got to ride my my horse around, I didn't know that that was un cool of the time. As a matter of fact I can tell you I think my kids think it's pretty cool now but we really were oblivious to our poverty in so many ways. Now I understood that there were a lot of kids very wealthy I would have liked to had a fancy car like they did or you know I was jealous in the couple of their girl friends as a matter of fact but I have to say I had a great child hood and one of the reasons is here we were all and you know not only were most of my friends in the folks I grew up with, not only were we poor, we really believed in some thing very silly. We thought America was a classless society. We didn't know about the elites, we didn't know that there was a ruling, governing class that had a god given right to hold the office, if they had the right family name or if they had the you know sort of their enough money in the bank, we did we didn't know about it - of that. So I have to say I was a little oblivious and I still hold on very jealously to that idea because I still think it's a pretty good pretty good starting point for all of us. You know I had a father who even though he is poor, it's how he would talk to me, I come home and I do - either you know I been in a fist fight I whipped a kid must feel increased strong about that and got in a pretty good grade or some thing or you know - what ever it was he would want to I had - I would had good football game or some thing and I would be like most young young guys you know little full my self and my father would say Lou you know don't start this big shot stuff with me and so I would say - you know yes sir which was the appropriate - that was the - you know I wish I could get a yes sir out of my sons at that age but it wasn't. But I - you know I would say yes sir and he said don't you forget this, don't you come in here with that big shot attitude of yours and he said just remember this by the time you thin k you are a big shot in this country, you dot the O I love to watch people kind of think about that but it but every time I have decided you know that I might be getting be a little bit of a big shot, I dot the O and I report on a lot of folks who consider themselves big shots let me guarantee you, I dot the O for them.
Joseph Pascal: Ted Turner recruited you in 1979, how did that come about and did you know Ted before that time?
Lou Dobbs: I didn't know him. And I was recruited by a talent scout and I turned the job down, surely got a brilliant visionary I am. I turned the job down three times before finally coming out being prevailed upon a wonderful man by the name of Sam Zelman was the executive vice president in charge of bringing in talent, and he talked to me in to flying down to to Atlanta to meet with with Ted and I met Ted for the first time and all this crazy, just a great band of renegades the president of the company was there, wild eyed romantic idealist and you know all of us shared one thing, we had to be crazy as how to be involved in that start up and I couldn't wait to join after meeting Ted and Reece and a number of the other guys because I found some real kindred souls and spirits there. So we were - and I have it was one of the few times that as a journalist you get as an opportunity to be an entrepreneur and it all appeal to me greatly Ted was a a great salesman, we were talking about boats at one point and he said - and this is the winner of the Americas cup in 1977 and he said to me do you do you like to sail, do you like to boat? I said well I do but I like you know I like power boats. He said really you know I have been thinking about giving up sailing myself, you know just like that. Here is the Americas cup saying you know we can't kind of move this so long, he would give up sailing for five minutes in the conversation but it's the way Ted's mind worked, he didn't care that I was just one cog in the wheel that he was creating. He wanted to make sure everyone of those cogs was there and on board, there was no person too too small or too remote from you know the direction he was taking the company, that it wasn't even built it yet for him to - I mean he invested in everybody and he was he was brilliant at it.
Joseph Pascal: How did you decide to settle on a horse farm in New Jersey?
Lou Dobbs: Well I have always had horses and my wife enjoys them and my kids and so like most things in my life, if my wife and my kids something I am right on board with it so -
Joseph Pascal: And the last question before we open it to the audience, you were at the second highest rated show on CNN. What do you would the tribute the success to this speaking frankly - speaking what the issues are what do you would tribute it to?
Lou Dobbs: I think more than anything else - sheer personal brilliance, capacity or I think because we focus on the issues that are critically important to to my audience. One of the things I always - I have always given through out my career I have always insisted that we make certain we respect our audience. We never ever speak down to the audience because I have always found there are lots of people in the audience who are smarter than I am and we never appeal to the lowest competent or denominator, as a matter of fact we we appeal to the to the highest denominator in our audience, we give them full respect for their intellects, their concerns and their values and the reward is being straight forward. What I say this is, my broadcast airs to be dull I mean exactly that we are not covering Anna Nicole Smith OJay Simpson hey what's funny is I am accused by some media critics of driving ratings by focusing on the out outsourcing of American jobs, illegal immigration, fascinating stories on port security or don't ever forget, don't ever get that that exciting stuff for public and infrastructure in the one and a half trillion dollars that we have to invest in. The the reality is that's those are the issues that we have focus on. We will be spending a a considerable part of the show here on Wednesday focusing on public education again which we will do probably once or twice a week and and the great thing is my audience would slap me in the face if I were to ever betray that that promise to them. So I try to stay away from that slap in the face.
