Dave Eggers: Welcome back to City Arts and Lectures. This is a one in the series that benefits 826 Valencia, down at 826 Valencia, between 19th and 20th. It's a non profit writing and tutoring center for Bay Area youth. Chris has happily and that's not the right adverb has generously and happily agreed to be here as a benefit for that center. I have been suggesting Chris Elliott as a guest here at City Arts for many years and I am so happy that he is I was part of a fan/stalker club, a fan club in high school. We actually compiled a four year I mean a four hour clip reel of every thing that he did on the Letterman Show and we were Monty Python fans and Letterman in general and Chris Elliott in particular were the only performers and the main performers that we could see on American television that sort of combined that same elements of silliness and and the surreal and even a little bit of the sinister. So we watched everything, we did even when he wrote the first book "Daddy's Boy," we all went down to Chicago and waited line, in the loop and like a Waldenbooks I think it was, for his signature. I still have a glossy an eight by ten glossy of Chris Elliott from that era, is ultimate geekdom. Anyway, since then Elliott has gone on to star in his own TV show, Get a Life, you saw a clip a second ago. He has appeared in dozens of movies and other TV shows and has written two books, the astoundingly funny "The Shroud of the Thwacker" and the brand new "Into Hot Air". He is one of the smartest and most original comedic minds in America. We are very, very happy to have him here, please welcome Chris Elliott.
Chris Elliott: Thank you thanks Dave that was very nice, very sweet.
Dave Eggers: I wasn't going to ask you .
Chris Elliott: Just over the top enough thank you very much.
Dave Eggers: I wasn't going to ask you but I was going to I wanted to know if you were going to do that bow whatever it is .
Chris Elliott: If I was going to do the Harvey Korman bow, that's what I call it that's where I got that from actually, it was Harvey Korman from the ''Carol Burnett Show.'' He did it before me.
Dave Eggers: What was your you know, as most people know your father was a pretty well known comedic genius himself.
Chris Elliott: He was Bob of Bob and Ray.
Dave Eggers: Yeah.
Chris Elliott: Now, thank you thanks and still is he is still around, Ray is not, but my dad is. I think, I am getting confused, it could be Ray, it could be my dad somewhere around.
Dave Eggers: Did you did you find him funny, growing up?
Chris Elliott: Yeah I did, you know, he was funny around the house. But I think I just assumed everybody's dad was funny and it really wasn't until you know I started going over to other people's houses that I realized that you know most people's dads beat their wives and you know, are not are not particularly funny. But he he was very low key, just like their comedy around the house, you know, I you know, he would leave and go to rip the radio studio in the morning you know, and dressed in suit and carrying a briefcase and come home.
Dave Eggers: Carrying a briefcase?
Chris Elliott: Yeah, carrying a briefcase.
Dave Eggers: Of jokes or what was it?
Chris Elliott: I never knew. I think what was in the football, I have no idea what was in there. And he would go whether they had work or not. They would go to the Graybar Building, where there office was and sit and put in a day's work from you know, nine to five and then come home and he could have been doing anything, you know. It wasn't like a very flashy childhood.
Dave Eggers: And you would see him on TV or hear him on the radio from time to time.
Chris Elliott: Yeah and my brother and I were talking about this. I don't think we appreciated his performing as much as we did later when we were kids. I can remember him and it sounds bizarre now to have big fans of Bob and Ray. But I remember him taking me to the studio and just having me sit there for like five hours while they you know goofed around on the air on WOR or whatever it was at the time. and I remember being bored out my mind all time, just with that painted on smile all time and you know, occasionally he turned around to look at me and I just you know, give him a thumbs up and I was just bored silly and I think of this because I had I had heard that kind of goofiness around the house, you know, all you know, it was just like being home. I just you know, wasn't around my friends, I was with my dad.
Dave Eggers: But it was really a dry humor that may be you got to get older to appreciate or I don't know .
Chris Elliott: Yeah, I mean I knew you know, walking down the street with him and and people would come up and you know, tell him like what a huge fan they were of his, you know. I knew that what he was doing was special. They did a Broadway Show in I think it was 1969 or 1970, and that's when I you know, it suddenly dawned on me, oh my dad's a funny entertainer, and he and it's when I sort of decided I wanted to go into it too.
Dave Eggers: And was that high school?
Chris Elliott: Well, I was nine years old. Yeah, I was in the 12th grade.
Dave Eggers: 12th grade I don't know.
Chris Elliott: No, I started Kindergarten I think when I was one, zipped right through that ?
Dave Eggers: You did go to a weird school though, didn't you?
Chris Elliott: Yeah Rudolf Steiner is where I went and they yeah they start you early there.
Dave Eggers: I don't know, yeah so you were nine.
Chris Elliott: I was nine yeah.
Dave Eggers: And were you funny?
Chris Elliott: Yeah I guess I was a goofball and I don't know if I was funny, you know, I think I was just a goofy kid. But I remember going to their show, Bob and Ray, The Two and Only, and I could only go to you know, I went to few night time shows, but because I was still in school, I had to go to the matinees and it was always an older crowd at the matinees, and never really, not a not a lot of laughs. You know, lot of feedback from hearing aids you know, during the matinees. But my dad was always you know it didn't count of a great mood in the matinees because they kind of blew off the matinees. So it was always fun to go and watch them work there.
Dave Eggers: But when you you started as a at Letterman, as what, a runner or a PA?
Chris Elliott: I started as a runner on the old show they they really didn't have interns yet, they didn't have interns yet. They it was such a small group of people and and I told you the story. I had met Dave a year before when he was doing his Morning Show and I was our tour guide at Rockefeller Center and I was my job during the day at that point was to sell tickets to the observation deck upon the 65th floor of 30 Rock. And Dave came up and he came up with his mother who was in town visiting him and and so I charged him the kiddy fare. And he giggled at that and and when I went back a year later to apply for a job on the Night Time Show he remembered me. Charging him the kiddy fare because he was with his mom is kind of the cool part of the story. The unhip part of the story is that I did I then blurted out who my dad was. And it turned out Dave was like a huge fan of my dad's, which was great to hear and and Dave said, yeah you know whenever I host the Tonight's Show, I always try to get Bob and Ray on in and I can't get them on, and I don't know why I said this to this day. I just said, yeah I know my dad doesn't do the Tonight's Show unless Johnny is hosting. And Dave was just like you know, well, okay you know, and he just walked off and I was like enjoy the view, you know. And but then a year later he remembered and he remembered that comment too, you know. And but then that first week of Late Night, Bob and Ray on too it was fun. Yeah it was fun.
Dave Eggers: And was that your doing or not.
Chris Elliott: No, I didn't have any he was a big fan of Bob and Ray he had the sweetest quote he ever said that that I heard him say was that if you don't know anything about a person or you are not sure if you like a person or not, you know, ask him what they think about Bob and Ray. And depending on their reaction you will know if that's a person you want to be friends with.
Dave Eggers: And how do you try .
Chris Elliott: I just made that up.
Dave Eggers: It really sounds good.
Chris Elliott: It would be sweet if that's what he said. I live in a fantasy world, quite a bit. I think some things have happened, some things haven't and there is kind of a line that even I don't know, what's real or not .
Dave Eggers: When you was this how do you was it a small enough show that you could transition from being a PA to writing and ?
Chris Elliott: That's the only way I could. I there was it was a really small group of people and I was I guess I was on like the first show, and Dave did like a tour at the studio, I remember, and I was enjoying October Fest in the control room. And I was in lederhosen and I didn't have a beard yet, I think so you should find that on YouTube, but yeah you could actually sort of talk to Dave back then. You know now it's it's a big corporation sort of there now. It's a little harder to to have access to him, but yeah, and I was goofy and I used to go out on the remotes with Dave and Merril Markoe, who was the head writer at the time and you know, Dave would always you know, do something with me on the remotes and I would occasionally I started to sort of write little jokes here and there for him, for opening remarks and he he used a few of them on the air and then I guess about three years into the show, he they hired me as writer because I wrote a submission.
Dave Eggers: And in between you were just as .
Chris Elliott: In between, other writers had used me on the show like in Viewer Mail as you know, some goof in the audience or something like that and you know, once I was a writer then I just started writing myself into the show.
Dave Eggers: Of course.
Chris Elliott: And I was on every week. But that's actually true. I mean I was and I remember it was it was sort of thrilling to you know, write something for Dave and hear an audience laugh at it, but actually write something for yourself and go out and do it and get a laugh was like a whole another you know, shot of heroine for me. It was like just completely different, you know, and I and I knew you know, that oh I should try to do stuff for myself here.
Dave Eggers: When so many of the characters and we saw a few and we saw some of the interaction between you and Letterman, and that was what attracted us was that that it didn't it always had a real air of menace about it, like your relationship with him and you wanted to get on it and you but then once he was asking you questions, you were like really kind of aggressive and snide to Letterman and it was just so bizarre, you never knew where that was going to go.
Chris Elliott: It's going to happen here too. In about 10 more minutes things are going to start to change.
Dave Eggers: Oh boy.
Chris Elliott: Yeah oh boy is right.
Dave Eggers: I can leave that .
Chris Elliott: That was a lovely dinner before this date but you know, I think it started because and I think I should credit my dad because I think my delivery initially was very much like my the dry delivery of Bob Elliott, because you know Dave up in the office which is where a lot of those bits originated, you know, we joke around with you and if I gave him like one word answers and just stared at him, he would suddenly laugh, you know, and I remember early on, on the show I I was I came out in a costume I was dressed as a garbage, it was a urban disguise, and Dave asked me a couple of things or whatever and then the show that night when it was aired for some reason, that part of the show, when I came out, got blacked out on the Eastern Seaboard and so Dave had me come out the next night and I was in the same garbage suit, but you could see my face this time. And he asked me how disappointed I was that the show hadn't aired and so forth and and I had friends in the audience and I said, yeah and he said, well what did they you know, what did they say of your performance? And I said to him, well they said it was the funniest thing they had seen in North America, Dave. And he laughed, you know, and the audience had about the same reaction if not if not less. But I knew at that point it didn't matter if the audience laughed or not, it was making Dave laugh, that mattered and so that whole thing of and you know kind of that seething anger underneath me was just something that I kind of developed with him you know, up in the office that he got a kick out of the fact that may be I was kind of a nut
Dave Eggers: Yeah.
Chris Elliott: - you know, and and that was you know, every character that I did on that show was kind of that guy, you know, and you know, the all those running characters which were essentially kind of poking fun I guess at the you know, running characters on SNL on Saturday Night Live, with catch-phrases and so forth was you know, really designed just so I could get to that moment where it will you know, I could say well, Dave I am going to make you're a little bit tough you know. And yeah, I would do like those characters for about you know, three weeks and then I would ram them down in on audiences throat, you know and and the whole idea was to do something kind of lame you know, and then I would do really fond bon voyage to the character at the end, you know, really sad montage with the character dying and make the audience feel something.
Dave Eggers: Yeah it was like three days after you had debuted the character and then there would be this montage.
Chris Elliott: Yeah, and then I will kill it off.
Dave Eggers: What was the importance of the cheapness of it? Like the wigs had to look cheap and the costume had to be cheap and the special effects in it had to have an air of lame so explain it .
Chris Elliott: I didn't realize it was cheap then. I spent a lot of time with the hair -.
Dave Eggers: That was supposed to be William Shatner there, right?
Chris Elliott: I really don't know. Yeah, I guess that was my version of Shatner at the Science Fiction Awards there. But yeah I think the whole concept with me honestly and it was a calculated concept was that I have no talent, and that I am a I was a staff member trying to work my way on to the show, in any way that I could and these terrible characters that were so lame and awful was the only way I could come up with you know, a way to get on the show. And so you know the and then Dave you know, calling me on on things and me turning on him became a sort of the running thing. But I guess the idea was to make it look as lame or as cheap as you said.
Dave Eggers: That was a Jay Leno chin, right, I mean -.
Chris Elliott: Well, that looked good, didn't it for 1972 or whenever it was
Dave Eggers: I don't know
Chris Elliott: It did they all do that with you know, computers nowadays so, but that was yeah that was prosthetics; that was six hours. That's what they came up with.
Dave Eggers: How did you choose the character of if its Marv Albert or Marlon Brando or and then increasingly like the Brando and some of the other characters you didn't bother costumes or makeup after a while. It was just you saying that you were that person.
Chris Elliott: Well I started to drink heavily during the Brando Era. I would kind of roll up from Hurley's the bar down there and run out and do it. I thought it added to the character, if I had had a few before I went on. They were all designed sort of to make Dave laugh. Marv Albert was a regular guest on the show, and I used to see him walking around you know, backstage, and what I would do what I would see backstage, which of course the general public will never see, which he always have a Styrofoam cup and he always brushed off his pants as he walked around you know waiting to go on. And so I remembered doing that coming out and before I said anything Dave was you know on the floor because he recognized that too you know you know, I don't think that fucker think of that you know, it's a .
Dave Eggers: But to us you know, I was just dying because I haven't seen that. Since like we were watching that clip review we had no idea why you were doing that.
Chris Elliott: Right no I know.
Dave Eggers: Because we hadn't seen him do that backstage or anything.
Chris Elliott: Yeah, not that was it's all an inside joke. Just with Dave just like you know, that's how I am with his with his notes, he had all these notes. And I started from cupping brushes pants for an hour before he came on the show.
Dave Eggers: What was it like that because you have worked in so many different shows and film sets since then? Has it always been have you ever been on that sort of set where, it was really about a relationship with making one guy laugh and you could do this strangest stuff and it would get on air. You know, what I am saying.
Chris Elliott: Yeah you mean in terms of movies, and stuff like that
Dave Eggers: Yeah.
Chris Elliott: - or in terms of I mean TV the closest thing was Get a Life, and you know we didn't do that in front of an audience. So, we but I had nights there we shot two nights, two days, but we would shoot late into the night and there was one night where we had we had to finish the episode you know, otherwise they were going to shut us down and it took us till five in the morning because my dad and I could not stop fucking laughing. We were laughing -.
Dave Eggers: Your dad who played your dad on the show.
Chris Elliott: My dad played my dad not my first choice. But yeah we could not stop laughing and it was just because I knew what was going through his mind and he knew what was going through my mind which was basically that you know, can you believe we were doing this shit.
Dave Eggers: Do you remember what that was?
Chris Elliott: Yeah I think it was some camping camping show. I think I was supposed to sing something to and like Cats in the Cradle or something like that and it just it just wasn't working. Every time I looked at him I just saw that face you know, and kind of the bleared eyes as it got later and later at night, but you know. Letterman you know, we there had been times when you know, Dave has made me laugh as as you know, as loose as those things looked with him in the they were fairly scripted, you know, I had to write up what I wanted to do. And back in the old days not anymore, but back in the old days, you actually rehearsed to. You actually came out and rehearsed the interview, you know, and how it was going to go. And but there you know, Dave would try to throw me things every now and then and it was easy to handle it when I was in character you know, like Brando or something like that. But you know when I was myself I would started cracking up. I remember Dave like, Brando Dave loved the Brando character and hated it at the same time. He hated it because it took a lot of time for me to do to do those moments you know, and I can remember you know, I remember many a time you know, like leaning over and talking to I mean talking to the Paul and doing these takes and stuff and then then just looking over and seeing his hand underneath the table going like this. And and actually like as Brando just going "huh?" And that you know that cracked him up. Brando was like one of those weird things that Adam Resnick who is my best friend in the world and I never see we talked to each other on the phone nonstop, but we never see each other. But he was a writer there and we were in the greenroom once and we both loved The Godfather and we are talking about Brando and at the time Brando had not made his come back yet, which I guess he did, you know, after The Formula, after his big swansong. And we were we knew he was on an island and he was kind of nuts at this point and all that we just had this idea well what if Brando showed up at the studio and hung out and bugged Dave, you know, which just kind of sleeping in the airlock which means the studio and the hall way. And and what would he do on the show? And we are talking about the Godfather and in the wedding sequence in the movie, The Godfather there is there is this one guy when every one is dancing, who is standing to the side with a cocktail kind of watching them dance and it was kind of standing there like this doing this weird like little thing you know, and we that's how like sort of the Marlon Brando banana dance came about. It was just like you know, we figured, okay well, he come out and he would just be kind of like doing that kind of thing. Then if you watch the movie you will see it that the camera pans by this guy and I don't know I don't know if that was like supposed to be like a dance from the 40s or something that they did. But he is standing there with the cocktail and doing . And yeah so then we must, yeah we figured that Brando would come out and he would you know, make ruthless fun of Paul Shaffer and I remember coming out and Paul was not crazy about it, I don't think as I I can't remember coming out as Brando and you know, just saying that Paul, I brought you something. And then I I pulled out you know, a little cow boy outfit for Paul Shaffer you know, with little boots and I said, isn't darling you know. And Hal Gurnee just cut to a shot of Paul just like shaking his head now its fun.
Dave Eggers: When you pitched to Get a Life to, what was that pitch. What was going on in sort of comedy at the time?
Chris Elliott: Well, Fox had approached me to do a series and oddly enough, I think the first thing I pitched to them was an idea where Marlon Brando goes goes out west and becomes a house keeper for some family and I think I said, it's going to be kind of like the fugitive because his agents is going to be like chasing him around the country and and they rightly turned that one down. And and then they kept telling me and I you know, this was early on at Fox and they kept telling me that they wanted a really kind of family oriented show, you know, why they wanted me for that, I have no idea. But I I came up with this idea of well I went in and I pitched them this idea that Big Tom Hanks's movie had been out. And I I said it's kind of like a Peter Pan story. It's you know, an adult with the mind of a child. And you know and they said, oh that's wonderful. That's great, some things that come out of this mouth means something. And I said yes, teaches every one a lesson and what they got was you know, an insane guy living at home with his parents who are also insane you know, and they were not happy at all about that, you know, because they are hoping for Big.
Dave Eggers: Well, at what point did they know? Yeah.
Chris Elliott: Well, they were you know, right from the pilot on, I think they you know, and even the pilot we actually if you if you ever watch that show, the pilot actually has a lot of it's you know, has a lot of the network notes in it. You know, because everybody kept saying, you have to do their notes at least on the pilot, so you get picked up. So you know, the pilot is not as edgy as the show the first episode out of the game was called The Prettiest Week of My Life, which was me becoming a male model. And they knew right away, "What the hell is this?" You know, I think that was the note. I think that was actually a note from that, just like would you like to explain yourselves
Dave Eggers: And did that air as it is?
Chris Elliott: It aired as it is. But you know they would send us down notes to they were constantly wanting a moment you know, between me and my dad or something you know, human something recognizable. And we just could not bring ourselves to do that. We would I mean we would write in a joke for them you know, or they would suggest you know, some lame joke and we go wonderful, yes, we will put that in. That's that's what my character would say. And then you know, either you know, write some sort of you know, other joke that would mainly totally nullify that joke completely or take it out in editing all together you know. That was the nice thing about not having to do it in front of an audience you know, it's we could go in and edit it edit out all the bad network notes.
Dave Eggers: Now on DVD Now this show you can get it and then you can get it with a laugh track and we saw a few clips with the laugh track. And then you can watch .
Chris Elliott: You can get it without the laugh track too.
Dave Eggers: Yeah you can do with out the oh I am sorry I didn't tell you that yeah you can do it with out the laugh track and you will hear a few crew members laughing.
Chris Elliott: Really are you serious I thought you were just joking.
Dave Eggers: No no it's really raw it's totally .
Chris Elliott: Wow, I didn't realize that. Jesus.
Dave Eggers: But what's that like, because it was a very quite place.
Chris Elliott: It was very quite but you had to be quite because we had to be quite for the laugh track.
Dave Eggers: Oh really.
Chris Elliott: That we were going to put in. It was it was a little strange I guess in that sense not doing in front of an audience, but it was better because we did a lot of things that we are kind of you know, film like, you know, and that took a lot of time to set up and that every show was huge you know, whether it was me becoming a male model and having to build this whole you know, theater for me to you know, walk down the runway on or you know getting stacked you know, breaking the world's record having crap stacked on top of me. I mean these were huge sets that they they built. So you know, there was no way really to do it in front of an audience. But you know I am you are asking me you know, how well was it like to perform without laughter?
Dave Eggers: I guess it just -.
Chris Elliott: I am pretty much used to that.
Dave Eggers: Yet, there were some people laughing you know, it always an odd crew member.
Chris Elliott: Well, there was another show taping down with the other end of the hall like that was a little odd. It was always I don't know I remember you know, because it was my real dad, and my mom came to watch a taping once and look it was it just oh so humiliating just to see her, like sitting there oh okay. Yeah.
Dave Eggers: At what point did the did the Fox people, did they give up and ?
Chris Elliott: You know, there was a guy there there was a guy there who was not in development, was not head of the current, I guess his what the thing was he was in charge of promos for Fox and did not have any kind of sense of humor whatsoever. And I remember he called once. He called to pitch some promo ideas for the show before it was aired. And I was so cocky and such an idiot, I was like hey, everybody get on the line, you don't want to listen to this and you know, he was you know, pitching like you know, these keystone cops ideas you know, for speeding up the footage and doing all the stupid stuff. And I was just making fart noises into the phone the whole time, and just going oh no, that's a great idea. What was that idea? Yeah, go on with that you know. And everybody was laughing. About six months into the show that guy was promoted to being in charge of current and in charge of our show. And if we just had bad luck with right from the start with that guy and he was not a fan to the show obviously. So that's part of it you know, as if getting I think we have the same exact rug, this is a karastan. I get it from North Carolina cheaper, go ahead.
Dave Eggers: When did you - when did you start when was the idea to kill yourself off on the show so often when did that occur?
Chris Elliott: That was more or less the second season, you know, we we did a full first season that I thought was great and we were cancelled. And then suddenly you know, they they somebody called and said that I was devastated and crying and really not taking it well. So they said, all right, we will give you a few more and they picked us up for a second season. But like they picked us up for like nine episodes and halfway through that nine, they cancelled us completely but we still had to deliver the rest of the shows and at that point I was looking at the scripts ahead of time and just like going I am not going to come in and get in a big vat of chili. I am sorry, I am not going to do it you know. And so we just ended up you know, tearing my head off and kicking it down the street and you know, finishing off the shows that way. It was really kind of a just our way of just like not wanting to stay late, coming up a good ending. I think it was just about every every episode towards the end of the second season I am dead, I die.
Dave Eggers: And was that bit of must have been sort of fine in a way, freeing, knowing that there wasn't really anything in stake; it's just going to .
Chris Elliott: I guess it was. I mean it was a little I think during the second season, I started to hear rumblings that there were people that actually were fans of the first season. You know, while we were doing the first show, the first season, it didn't seem like anybody was watching the show and that the people that were watching had hated it that's what it seemed like.
Dave Eggers: Were you right after "In Living Color"?
Chris Elliott: We were and and I remember, but that was great for us and I remember you know, walking down the street in Santa Monica with my daughter, who was I think like three at the time, and there was a woman coming with a person coming close to us and I could tell she had recognized me and I thought, oh this would be cool for me daughter, to see me get recognized and as she passed by, she said, oh there is that guy from that show I hate. You know and my daughter was like "What did she say daddy?" You know, and I just said. "Well, nothing honey, come on, let's move along." But but the fact that you know, there weren't really ratings that you could you could - you know, that meant anything at that point because Fox was so new, you know, that the ratings were always you know, at the bottom there you know, even for their hit shows. So you couldn't really tell that. That compounded by the fact the network hated the show and you know, we just thought you know, our work we were just doing crap here just horrible, horrible crap. And then the second season, you know, there seem to be the slight little resurgence, like may be if we stayed on it would have done something. But so I guess I was you asked if it was freeing to be able to tear my head off and kick it down the street, and and it was, but it was bittersweet, because I was a little, you know, I was already a little sad about having to say good bye to it, because that you know, and this sounds I guess like a weird you know, window into my psyche, but you know, my whole career has sort of been still in my mind you know, what what makes Dave laugh and what not you, sorry, but what makes Dave Letterman laugh and how and would he be proud of me or would he be happy that I am doing that. And I knew that he loved Get a Life, you know. He had told me, oh that that's perfect. That is just the perfect thing and he had wished that he had actually we had actually done something together before I left there. His production company wasn't up and running at the time. So I you know, when it when it went down I think that was part of it too. I felt like a failure like you know, oh shit, okay Dave you know I failed. But then I did "Cabin Boy." And I I sort of I got his respect back with that.
