- Share your favorite videos with friends
- Comment on videos and join the conversation
- Get personalized recommendations
- Enjoy exclusive offers
Purchased a FORA.tv video on another website? Login here with the temporary account credentials included in your receipt.
Sign up today to receive our weekly newsletter and special announcements.
Good evening and welcome and welcome to today's meeting at the Commonwealth club of California. My name is Kevin O'Malley; I am the Vice Chairman of the Club's Business and Leadership Forum and your host for today. We also welcome our listeners on the radio; we invite our audience to visit us on the internet at commonwealthclub.org to learn more about the many fine programs and events held here at the club. And now it's my pleasure to introduce our distinguished speaker Moira Gunn. Dr Moira Gunn is the host of Tech Nation and Bio Tech Nation which air throughout the United States and on the NPR channels on the Sirius satellite radio, NPR Now and NPR Talk, and international headed to 133 countries via American Forces Radio. Produced at the studios at KQED in San Francisco the programs can also be heard on more than 200 public radio stations and through podcasts courtesy of iTunes and other internet distribution venues. Dr. Gunn's many public roles range from moderating open panels at the Sundance Film Festival, the Forbes CIO Forum and the Deloitte & Touche CEO Summit, to emceeing the entire three-day Pop!Tech Conference to keynoting major events. Her topics range from "The Facts of Life in the High-Tech Age" to "What You Need to Know About Biotech, and What Biotech Knows About You." Her interviews and weekly commentaries are backed up by solid credentials. A former NASA scientist and engineer, Dr. Gunn was the first woman to earn a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering from Purdue University, where she also earned a Masters in Computer Science. Gunn shares a software patent in Nutrition Science with two USDA nutrition researchers. Moira Gunn is the Program Director for the Information Systems Program in the College of Professional Studies at the University of San Francisco, and she serves on a number of advisory boards, including the Dean's Science Advisory Council of Purdue University, the Advisory Board of the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Stanford, the Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology, the Trusted Computing Group, Compumentor, and the Tech Awards' Global Leadership Council. Dr. Gunn was named a Science Laureate for her contributions to science journalism, and she is a member of Phi Beta Kappa. She lives in San Francisco, California. She is also the author of a brand new book which is for sale out in the lobby and Moira will be talking a little bit about this tonight. And so with that I am very happy to introduce my friend Moira Gunn. Thank you. Well it, its great to be here and I I have to say I was just cogitating today because okay great, I am going to come down here and talk about the speech that we promised and there is nothing I hate worse than you go to hear someone talk about something and that's now what they talk about. And I am definitely talking about the five biggest biotech challenges facing America. But I have to say I was sitting there going on saying, these five and this is why, I am thinking, what a yawner. Oh I will stay here and that lecture, and I thought this is a home town audience. Biotech Nation started right here. Lots of you have listened to me. In fact I have been talking in the hallway and they go, oh I know who you are, I know exactly who you are. So I thought, okay I am not only going to tell you the five biggest biotech challenges facing America. I am going to tell what I really learned and through that learned about the five biggest biotech challenges. A lot of people knew me for years hosting Technation KQED and and this is a perfect place to do tech. I mean, for heavens sake we got Silicon Valley, the world travels here, we have got all the investment dollar, its absolutely a perfect place to do tech. And I managed to ignore that actually closer to us, ten minutes away at South San Francisco, was the world's largest biotech cluster. Literally invented here and it was like, how I could ignore it, I don't know but I was I did a really great job. And my background is actually more as an engineer, in math, I went to a Jesuit University which is a place where they make you take theology and philosophy and they let you take math and science. So that I that I ended up an engineer is a miracle. And I and they also taught me what a miracle was, so I can guarantee you that it is true, it's unbelievable. But I dint have any life science at physics and calculus and all that other stuff, theology and philosophy and so one of the reasons I ignored it was because I didn't understand anything about it you know, one high school chemistry class does not qualify you to learn anything about biotech. But eventually biotech found me and I was, I had done a couple of interviews, and didn't quite know what to do with them and it turned out that I mean, the first one was the technology that was named by Science Magazine one of the top technologies of 2003. And this was you know, in you know, sort of the January of 2004, and I thought well the Science Magazine isn't going to be wrong, you know. And then, I do a Nobel Laureate, the Nobel Committee can't be wrong, Carl Sagan, he knows what he's talking about. So, this is how I qualified everywhere, I didn't have background yet. But what had happened was, I started doing a few of these biotech things and the biotech PR people began to circle. They suddenly realized, "she will do biotech", so as they do it as bio as PR people do everywhere. What they do is; once they find another venue or or a journalist, or a patsy as they like to call them, they invite them to what is called a press event or otherwise called a a well lubricated press you know, media event, a dinner. Hence the the cocktail glass on the cover of the book. And then when you see you get closer, you will realize that the stem of the martini glass is actually a double helix. I went to this biotech party, that I you know, it was like the I knew all the Journalists there, and it was really great. I mean, frankly they they got us all in one place, said, what do you like, vodka martini or a Cosmo. And oh, sorry we don't have any hors d'oeuvres, drink drink up. And as journalists everywhere do, it's like within 30 seconds we become fast friends. And it's just like we are used to making friends with people fast, we were just so happy. And then you know, right then they send all these CEO's and all dressed up, all ready to prime us. So the first fellow came along and he said, "Well you know, I am a biotech company and this is what we do." And I said, "That's fabulous. You must come on technician." And then the next guy comes along. He hands me off immediately, he must have been trained; the moment he says, she'll go for it you know, don't over sell. Sell, oversell, undersell. Don't oversell, so so introduces me to the next guy. I said, "That's wonderful, you must come on Technation." And the he introduced to me the next guy and I realize, oh, my god, there is like a dozen CEO's in this room. I can't do all these biotech interviews. But one thing, I don't understand anything about biotech you know. This is just a little problem that I had. So the third guy had asked me you know, but I said I kept saying, "Oh, that's fascinating." But I never said you must come on Technation. So finally you know, times is up. It's you know, sort of the PR equivalent of speed dating, I am afraid. And so he passes me to the next guy, and I am like, okay, you are not going to get any interview out of me. And so, I am talking him, all of a sudden see this hand waving over at the side and I look over, and the 3rd CEO, is talking to the first two CEO's and there is no doubt he is going to she didn't ask me on Technation. So I turned at this guy and I go, "We are doing a new weekly segment on biotech." And and he was so, you know, he was so sweating and upset about having to even talk to me. He I don't think he even noticed to this day, its like you'll never he would be talking, what we are going to do. And so, that kept everybody off my back. Its like, oh they are going to do new weekly segment, we will wait for that which they had to do. And but, you know I must say then I didn't go particularly smoothly and that's when I first started to learn I mean I knew there was a lot of stuff here I mean, look at all these energized people and all the stuff going on. But, it's where I learned the first lesson that I really like to share with you. And that is just because all the words in a sentence are simple and make sense, does not mean you understand what they are talking about. Now case in point, a lot of these things I knew I didn't understand, like modern nuclear or nucleotides, peptide, blah you know, it just goes on like oh yeah, that's really great and how many in Phase III, Phase II I mean lot of these these kinds of things. But this guy was up to me, and - and you know he and usually people say their name and and they are with such and such company and this is what they do. And I was unaware that one of the things that that's really nifty in biotech is called small molecules. And it's a way they happen to you know, interact with the body and these kind of thing, big candidates for things like cancer drugs for whatever. I didn't understand this. So when the guy said, I am - you know Joe and I am the CEO of this I with the small molecule company. I said, oh, I am sure you'll be a big molecule company someday. Now these are the things of which I am now conscious. Can you imagine, somebody's level to write a book called, "Oh, yeah". Looks like this will be this will be really good. And so its like, okay, this is this is what we are going to do. I was committed and it just seems like a really good idea. It was fascinating, it just it just seem like just a whole new thing and and a whole lot of it had to do with DNA and frankly you know with science, you know a lot of its like we we do or we are going to do astrophysics this week. And we just know that the audience numbers it kind of go down and you know, we do some of these things and but I thought biotech you know, who doesn't have DNA you know, this could be a good thing. And it turned that was that was really the trigger, as I thought, great. This you know, this could be a good thing and it turned that was that was really the trigger is I thought great. This is the spring of 2004 and I realize that the big International Bio Conference is coming to San Francisco, its May or June of 2004. And I have to tell you if you were here at that time you know, oh they were having genetically modified food provided in the street, they are at the right place, I mean it was really kind of fun to go this conference. And so I am sitting there and I have recruited a you know, a biotech patent attorney out of New Orleans to do this and I I say, you know, I explained to him about what it means to be a producer. How he's got to go around till like, all the exhibit area, and the hallways and the parties and the speaking things and just figure out good people to have on the radio, albeit over KQED. You put him in a taxi and then you ship him over KQED, I do the interview and you know, so you goes oh you want me to be a carnival marker. So I got nothing I do, that's what I want to be. And that's being a producer and so so but he started off. I mean it was pretty tough starting off. And was kind of science by surprise, it was like, oh world's largest enzyme producer, what could that ever mean, because the guy had a Danish accent and was from some Danish town that was like one of these unpronounceable thing. It was he is a very nice person and he deserves a medal and I don't think he will be back, that was really good. But by the time of the third day of the conference Mark was really on a roll. I mean he had made friends, in the southern accent we kind of rise and fall and he just had everybody interested get his with his fountain pen out. I was sure he was going to throw you know, ink over everybody and he take oh here is two to go and then he he takes notes and then he hand them the piece of paper and say, over to KQED, you will see her before I will. I was like oh okay. But then he scored and he scored big. He actually got in one hour at KQED Lord David Sainsbury, who was the Minister for Innovation and and at from the United Kingdom, Sir Richards Sykes, who was the President of Imperial College, London and the former Chair of Smith Glaxo Wellcome, I always get them in the Glaxo Smith Wellcome, to get them in their title, I didn't know anything about biotech. And so and then the third guy Sir Christopher Evans, the largest biotech person in Europe and what we didn't we didn't realize is that you know, Tony Blair had the problem with the "Cash for Peerages" thing, two of those guys resigned over it and Sir Christopher was actually arrested. So it was like we had no idea who we had altogether in one booth there. Well let me tell you what I learned from that experience. What I learned from that experience is when a person from Europe kisses you on the cheek they will then proceed to kiss you on the other cheek and here I am and it was like oh here is Lord this and Sir that and here is Sir Richard right in front of me and people were taking all these pictures. And so he shakes my hand and kisses me one cheek, but I think he is done, you know kiss me on the cheek so I am looking over like this and he goes and kisses the air. There is a big picture of him with this so it was it was kind of fun. But at any rate it's really one of the most important things that I learned out of that is that Sir Richard is the Director of the Imperial College of London where they study science, medicine and engineering. And one of the biggest things that we keep trying to push biotech into like pharmacy pharmaceuticals rather or we try to push it into some kind of funny little engineering. The truth is all the interesting things that are happening or happening between those areas, between medicine and engineering, between engineering and science, between science and medicine or all three, you have to know so much to be able to bridge those things for the new innovation to come through. And he said it's so beautifully. And he also sounded like Sean Connery which was really sort of an extra added attraction on the radio. Now number three what I learned which was kind of interesting is that well it might be that Brooke Shields has a tattoo on her ankle, that that's really not it. Now the it's related it's that it's that no package is too big for FedEx, I mean 200 hundreds pounds, easy. You need an ocean going container, FedEx, easy click it on the internet. But how small do they go? What's the smallest thing that you ever heard of being shipped FedEx and I got the answer to that. And it's actually related to Brooke Shields. She came to the Bio 2004 Conference to thank people to thank Biotech for the fact that she had a baby. Now she has got two. She went through, no less than, then seven in vitro fertilizations and one missed carriage to get her first baby, I mean it was it was pretty wild stuff. And but she was also talking about is what they have now called PGD, Pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis and PGS, Pre-implantation Genetic Screening, which is basically you are diagnosing for a particular condition you know about in your family, like Huntington's or you know cystic fibrosis or just general screening for like well, extra chromosome 21 for Down Syndrome or there is any number of things. And and actually she wasn't talking about that doctor. Whenever it got to the technical stuff she pointed, Dr. Caroline Givens from the Pacific Fertility Center here and and so I got a big call from you know, from Mr. Big and you know my producer was saying, you want to know, Brooke Shields has a tattoo, I've got a picture of it. You want to talk to her. And I was like, well actually no. She knows things I will never I could only guess at. However, I just can't take her as someone on bio-technation. Someone who probably knows less than I do is a really bad mix for the radio. And but he said, but I like this girl behind here. And so Dr. Caroline came on. And she said a whole bunch of interesting things like that I I was really pretty fascinating fascinated by. And I think it really important as we go forward here with stem cells and all the techniques that we have in the US. It - you take a woman's egg and a sperm from a male, and you put them together to produce the fertilized egg. It's a single cell. And that cell divides into two cells and each cell divides again then into eight cells. How long does it take to get to eight cells? Any guesses here? How long does it take to get to eight cells from the first thing? I was surprised to know 48 hours. Almost like well like this and like this. Well it gets going; the numbers get going you know, it's a cycle. That is pretty interesting. So what they do then is they go in, when they get to about eight cells or [0:16:58] ____ nine, I am like, oh nine, that's not divisible by two. Well nature is such that you get somebody died and you know its like it's kind of little messy, it's not quite perfect. They go in and they literally grab one of those cells. You know, just right there at the head of a pin. And and now we are back to the FedEx. They put it in a FedEx envelope. As they FedEx it across the country, and they wait two days. In the mean time the cells are going to be like a hundred or 110 cells here. In the mean time, they fax back the results of what's in that cell. So, I mean you can go to an ocean container or you can ship a single cell around in FedEx. And no problems, just on the internet point click. Its all- it's all there. And while we are on to a live birth, I mean this the genetic screening was kind of interesting because because it's like, what do you what are you screening for? It's like when you have a choice what do you do? And they can certainly look at what the the gender composition is of the of what you have and we usually say, gee is it going to be a boy or a girl, that is to be the old question. Well, we now know that in 2.2 percent of live births, that's a little more than one out of 50 births, the baby is neither fully male nor fully female from a genetic point of view; it's one out of 50 births. With six billion people on the planet over a 130 million people are intersexed. And when you think of that its like well, actually I it's probably true. Well, with the biotech challenge for - you know or confused, like me its, yeah. It's the Venn diagrams, its kind of overlapping, I am sure. But but what's the biotech challenge for America? Well, right now we have over 400,000 frozen embryos on ice. We are getting really good in vitro fertilization. We can really pop these out. We got no controls over them. We always look at, like Britain, and they have the fertilization and I am not going to get it right, embryolisation, something, authority in which that controls stem cells research and they can do stem cell research on many, many areas that we can't begin to with federal funds here. But they also have, they they keep a track of where all the frozen embryo's are. They say either, what you are going to do with these? You are going to try to may be going to give it to science, you can give it to a surrogate mother, what do you are going to do? We have no idea where ours are, what they are, their distant private hands so that while we are very strict on managing the stem cell research with our federal funds it's like a free for all in all these frozen embryos. And so I keep thinking you know, I know President Bush came up with a great plan to say may be we can use these frozen embryos to you know implant them and volunteer women and they can go so we need 400,000 women who is ready to volunteer and its like, "Oh man", you know. He had those he had the press conference with you know, the frozen snowflake babies hanging around and it was like, they were like 72 of them in total and 13 that were running around and making making big problems. But the thing is just that I think that we are we are also going to have a huge challenge here when we screen embryos for implantation. I mean we need to be very circumspect about what we think is a genetic defect. I mean, in many ways its all gods children. So it's like the good news and the bad news. These are very tough, tough decisions. Now one example of among many is that there is new evidence that we can successfully treat Down syndrome in lab animals. Much of these testing has gone on pre of the in Vitro, pre of this kind of thing, but with the amniosinties etc. But now it's beginning to look like we can begin treatment as soon as these lab animals were born and actually treat them through Down syndrome. So whether that comes to provision for humans or not, it's like, wow. Before we start you know, genetically screening for something that we in fact in the end take care of. I mean these are really that these are these are never good decisions never good decisions, they are just way too hard. So since we are in stem cells or stem cell research, if you today accept fund federal funding, you can only do research and what we call the Presidential Stem Cell Lines. And so it's like you can do all the private research you want but it you are going to use federal funds, it's for President - the Presidential Stem Cells Lines. Those Presidential stem cell lines you know, there were 60 of them initially, only ten to 15 are now shipping. And in fact you may have heard things, let's say the Presidential Stem Cell Lines are dying. And it turns out that no they are not dying, it's I kept thinking you know that means meaning like you go and look in the petri dish and they are not there anymore. No, they are not dying. The problem is they are changing. Now when you constrain anything you are growing to in this case, the petri dish in a particular you know, humidity and temperature and everything. Life adapts, the best cells try to get better. They say, gee I am really going to really like it here in the petri dish. And you know life mutates and the and the ones that are but with science, every experiment you do on a stem cell line, you want to be the same stem cells. Otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges with apples and a slightly different apple. And the science no longer works. Now what is happening is that we are getting to the point were many of these stem cell lines are being highly stressed, simply by being in the petri dishes or what ever they're being developed in. And just like sourdough bread you start with what you started early, you put a bunch of flower flower and water and and then you make a bigger one. Just take some aside to go forward. But in this particular case, now we are talking about the stem cell lines; are are in fact beginning to change. And rather than saying well it's just the it's just the federal you know funded stuff, its not. Even the private funding people, excuse me, even the private companies are using federal stem cell lines or the presidential stem cell lines because while they are doing their particular studies in with with the other stem cell lines, they need to deal with them as well, with the federal ones, so they know they match the earlier science. So we have a time where it's very simple, it crosses over. You have got the number of Presidential stem cell lines, the viability declining while you have the number of people and number of experiments they want to use, increasing. And so that's always a disaster saying, well we are just looking at the end here; we have got to do something. So, this is the biotech challenge from America because these stem cell lines are not going to live forever. And while there was some legislation passed by both Houses, the Congress, the President vetoed it. And if we need to study something that is not here's something that we haven't talked about. If we need to study, something that isn't represented in the existing lines then we are out of luck anyway; even if they continue forward. Let me give you an example of that. Dr. Kari Stefansson is an Icelander and he is the President and CEO of a firm called deCODE Genetics. And it's great; they actually have all the genetics of everybody in Iceland. And if you remember your Iceland history, there were you know how many boats couple of boats got off and then everybody is descended from them. And they actually a have a lot diabetes, they have a lot of interesting things, very homogenous population. People are retiring to Florida not to Iceland. What a surprise? And, I know I know and so they managed to keep the homogeneity going there. They have found a gene variant which in White Americans creates a 15 percent increase in the risk of heart attack ofcourse they are using all of their genes. So if we were were going to study it here under federal funding with we better be lucky and make sure that that gene variant is in the current presidential stem cell lines or we wouldn't be able to do it with federal funds. And if that doesn't get you, that same gene variant in African Americans creates a 250 percent increase in the risk of heart attack. So once again, I guess, the minorities are left out you know, as it were. So the punch line is if none of the presidential stem cell lines carries the gene variant of interest. We can't study it with federal funds. So you can make all the declarative sentences you want you in Congress. You can make all the decisions you want for the National Science Foundation, The National Institutes of health where ever you are. But unless we have the raw goods we can't move forward. Now that was one of those things. I just didn't know I didn't get about stem cell lines and I sure still don't know a lot about them but I can certainly put that together, which brings us to another discovery that decode genetics make and they found a single variant in a gene. If you have one copy of this variant, you - independent of whether you are eating twinkies and sitting on the couch all day, if you have one copy of this gene you got a 40 percent increase in developing type II diabetes. If you have two copies of the gene you have a 140 percent increase in developing type II diabetes. 35 percent of Americans have one copy. Seven percent of Americans have two copies. And that's just the genetic basis. And we are just not even talking about, you know, people are just kind of well I'll just, you know keep eating my twinkies and and whatever it is I am sure twinkies are great for you. Although we did, we did it to show recently on twinkies deconstructed and there is no crÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¨me in C R ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€¹Ã¢â‚¬Â M E, there is the clue, there is nothing dairy in there. 500 million or 50 million Twinkies they make and they only put one million eggs in it. It's like there is a point what percent of an egg in every twinkie, I didn't know don't go there and any way. So but this brings again to this business of diabetes and a whole lot of people are touched by it, or no people that are touched by it. but you kind of say what is diabetes really have to do with me if you are not touched by a whole lot of people just don't even know and all of us have had that experience where we went to place and one of our friends you know, but suddenly you realize, you are diabetic, who knew you are diabetic. I have known you for how long, and it's like it's not that it's so shameful. It's like you can manage it very well without a lot of people knowing unless you are in a particular situation. Now here is the part that just I just came up short on. One out of six humans are either diabetic or pre-diabetic. One out of six either pre diabetic or diabetic, over half don't know it. Don't just don't even know it. A low stroke, a low heart problem, a low circulation problems, the list goes on. If you are pre-diabetic, untreated in 10 years you will become diabetic. It's not like, "Oh I'll be pre-diabetic forever." Uh-huh, go out and check the FDA website, it will tell you. So why don't we know it. Well the current test is a glucose test, you got to fast. It costs money. You have to it's like oh if you are not, it's like what do we do about if we are pre diabetic. It's you are not included in the normal group. There is a new technology from VeraLight, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Now they are not the only ones working on it but this is just one, in which, it's a light box. You hold your arm over it for 30 seconds. As you go forward you have platelets in your skin as you grow. If you have the normal amount of platelets over - build up over time, that's fine. If you have too much glucose, if you are pre-diabetic, you will have more platelets than you should for your age. Not the time to lie about your age ladies. Just type it in; just don't let anybody see it. Just type it right down there. In 30 seconds you can find out whether or not you are you are pre-diabetic. This is a public health problem of the first order. And the Baby Boomers are at risk right now. And so that's what I think is the big biotech challenge for America. Genetically modified foods, President of American super markets and yet GM appears no where on our food labels. Every other year of American corn is grown from genetically modified seeds. And 85 percent of the soy crop which is in everything, soy is in everything. So what's the biotech challenge for America? I don't care what your opinion is about anything. This way, that way is a test this is a non test good, bad. Simply telling us what we are eating. Would that be too much to ask? You know, what's that what's that interfering with? Obviously follow the money trail. Seldom leads you wrong. Now I also learnt in my surprise, that I had enough material to write an entire chapter on semen. Thank god my mother isn't here to see that. She would she would never maybe have gotten to it when she saw the martini glass on the cover of the book. But you know, there is always the chance she picked it up or somebody one of her friends read it and told her but you know, but there is a you have to do some of this. For example there is a new prostrate test which tests men's semen. Our current PSA test has a 75 percent false positive rate. And most of that we go into with needle biopsies, and they go to surgery, it's just a bad thing. In all seriousness, our challenge for America is that 40 percent of men will develop prostrate cancer by age 40. In 2005 230,000 men were diagnosed with cancer prostrate cancer and 30,000 men died because there is one form of it that is exceedingly, exceedingly aggressive. And that we can find with this new test and test like it. Although they have to ship it with the dirty magazine, I don't know it that's bad. But but there is plenty on the semen chapter for everybody. There is that business of the gorilla sperm, the frozen gorilla sperm how did you get that? Oh you have to read it. Actually well I will tell you, I won't tell you. There are now here is another thing. We are very close to getting here, I saw a few more. There are three billion letters in each of our DNA. And I thought well that's pretty interesting. I couldn't quite get my arms around it and you get only - you got four letters and it has got three billion letters in our DNA and finally I realized that would be if I I could put that on three chips in my camera, my little digital camera so that your DNA has got three chips - and during our lifetimes more likely have our DNA tested. Now there is it's a double helix. You only need to DNA once. Your RNA is how it's expressed so that's another three billion or three chips. That's like three Giga bytes for your, for your storage. And like we have a new lap top or something, you got a 100 Gigs you got 200 Gigs that's like 30 DNAs, you know, 60 DNAs 70 DNAs. So now we can start to get our our arms around that. And and the question for America - the challenge for America is where are we going to put all these data? And how are we going to process all this data and how to keep it private. And now, now I have like the number of one thing the set of issues that I really saw that kind of strike close to the heart. If you are working today, you can expect to retire at 76. Yeah I heard the grunts. Yeah that's exactly true. And with the advantages in biotech, humans can expect to live 10 to 20 to 30 years longer than expected and in fact 50 percent of the baby girls born in the US last year have a life expectancy of over a 100 years of age. I know it's just like you know, no third acts or second American lives we going to like seventh act, ninth act you know. What about all these people, I mean there is some people, those of us, some of them us don't plan very well but others are like I have been planning and this can be and I put away this much and I get this thing and I am going to retire at 62, or I am going to about 55,you know, I was like first of all I love the 55 year olds that are retiring. Because like this they are hanging on they are going to be like 95, 98 going this is if I had realized and I still knew I am still reading the chronicle every morning, that's a good news. And but the but the whole idea of you know, people who all of our financial plans, all of our our bio techs excuse me our pension plans, our annuities, our investments were set up for you didn't live much past 75, 80, 85 years old. I mean this is a problem. This is a huge problem. In fact last year, for the first time in how many years, the Congress is on to it's, they passed a law where, they changed the regulation where you used to be at 65 years of age, no matter what you earned outside of your job, you could keep your full social security benefit. Last year for the first in a long time, they in many decades, they changed it to age to 66. So they are going to be upping that every year. The front end of the baby boomers actually have a pretty good deal. You know, actually you know, get 12 more dollars a year whatever it is. At that point, but it's going to be inching up as we see that because retirement won't be there. And so let me this is really important it's like we are going to be living longer, it means we are going to be working longer and working in different ways. And finally one third of the world's economy is now driven by Biotech. I wasn't shocked about that one, huge shock about that one. Look at pharmaceuticals, look at healthcare, look at what we classically say biotech. Look at the bio fuels. Look at the new manufacturing processes running off of with enzymes. Look at all the bio-terrorism, bio-defense, bio-security. The list goes on. Fully one third of the world's economy is now driven by bio-tech. I got that from Dr. Gurinder Shahi who teaches at the I just forgot the school of business at USA. And he is also Executive Director of the Global BioBusiness Initiative. And I was listening to him and it was like yeah, yeah, yeah, and I thought well if he is wrong how much could he be wrong. Is that only 25 percent. No, no it's about a third if you sit down and if you sit down and look at it. But here is the really great answer to the whole thing is that most of the jobs in Biotech when you get down to it are very familiar. I mean, only one percent are biotech investors and scientists, I mean there is sales, there are marketing, there are finance, there are there are administration, there are all the things that we already know. Is it hard to get over there? Well yeah because they keep saying things like mononucleotides, what's his nuts, I just shouldn't say that. what's it's name? And so, I mean, what we are talking about is our things that are are really important. We look we are looking now at 40 to 50 year career arcs not 30 year carreer arcs and we are looking for more jobs and biotech is the largest growing sector, not only here in the San Francisco Bay area, not only in the United States but in the entire world. So we actually have some good news or after all. So thank you, thank you very much.