Strategies in Combating Anti-Semitism

Topic of today's panel, strategies in combating anti-Semitism, obviously follows very logically on the luncheon session which we just completed, where many of the issues that which we are concerned with were laid out with considerable, in considerable detail and sometimes with some passion. The 21st century has really seen a the increasing emergence of a variant on the old disease of anti Semitism, the classical anti-Semitism of Christ killer or somebody panting kill the Jews on the lavatory wall and then embellishing it that with a swastika. Those things still occur, but they tend to be isolated and relatively easy to control. What we face now as we heard so eloquently over the last couple of hours is a new illness. It's an illness in which the traditional anti-Semitism is emerging with anti Israel, anti-Zionist feelings, the boundaries between the two are becoming increasingly blurred while this has been probably on the development for a long time. It probably, it's likely that the breakdown of the Middle East peace talks in 2000, followed by the infamous United Nations sponsored Durban Conference has led to a main streaming of the problem, has led to a situation in which condemnation of Israel, of those who support Israel and very often by implication, the Jews, has lead to this becoming an increasingly politically correct position, especially on the left wing, often in academia. We have seen increasing efforts to launch boycotts of one type or another against Israel by the very people, by the very groups who 20, 30, 40 years ago or probably at that stage, strongest supporters and this main streaming. This emergence of a politically correct form of anti-Israel, anti Semitism is a problem that we need to confront head-on today. We had eloquently put in the last hour, the need for a adopting a more assertive position, words do matter, words do kill. The American Jewish Committee has long been involved in this fight, it was formed to- assess the Jews occasion of and we are at the time of a major problem and ever since then quietly behind the scenes but often very effectively, it has played a significant role in combating outbreaks of anti Semitism. Andy Baker, who is the AJCs Director of International Jewish affairs and who will be moderating today's panel has been one of the central people involved in a very important dialogue that's been going on in Europe over the last decade leading to the OSCE adopting a working definition of anti-Semitism, making sure that many European governments stay alert to the problem, often talking quietly to the people with putting their feet to the fire. He and others on the AJC continue to find new ways to ensure that the problem receives the attention it deserves. But this is not a problem that the AJC can or should solve by itself and that is why we have gathered an international panel for you today where hopefully the participants of the panel will present something of what's happening in their own areas and more importantly present ideas of how this problem can best be approached. Andy. Joe, thank you very much. Welcome to all of you and what really is our opening session of this International Leadership Conference weekend, I am going echo what Joe was saying at the beginning too. There are seats closer to the front. Sometimes I think it's like the synagogue where those front seats, front rows are always empty but if you'd like - you are welcome to move them. We wanted to present to you in a rather informal way and that's why we've not asked any of our panelists to prepare remarks, more a kind of informal conversation on how to deal with the problem. Now, I mean, we heard to some extent from the previous speakers in this previous session take on the problem internationally today. You, I others here may agree, may feel it is put properly, too strongly emphasis here, emphasis there, but I think there is no question that all of us have come to recognize there is a problem today that we had not imagined less than a decade ago would so engage us, would be such a concern and an international concern confronting Jewish communities, really throughout the world. Today this afternoon we want to try to get out what are some of the approaches one can take. Governments, international organizations, Jewish communities, links, that tie our Jewish communities together - to address this problem, not only defining it, not only exhorting people to wake up to the concerns, but how do we really deal with it and so we have today Gregg Rickman, who - only slightly less than year ago was appointed as the special envoy for combating, for monitoring and combating anti Semitism at the US department of state. We have a Henry Grunwald, a barrister - it sounds in this town much better than saying an attorney but the president of the British Board of Deputies. He instructed us too, it's an organization that well we would like to think of our long life at the American Jewish Committee celebrating over a hundred years. He has got us beat by more than twice. It's founding goes back to the 18th century. So the concern, the interest and the representation of British jury is something that is now Henry's responsibility but it comes in a long chain, a long tradition. Benedikt Haller, Ambassador Haller comes to us from the German Foreign Office. He is here as a special envoy as well to work with the Jewish communities. He too is responsible for the concerns of anti-Semitism, also for issues relating to confronting the holocaust and the international task force on the holocaust. Fred Pressner is known to many people here, he was been with us at the previous meetings for a considerable time in 1990s was the President, the Chairman of the Jewish Community in Venezuela, businessman, a community leader in coming here today, he will bring with him certainly reflections on how the politics in Venezuela these last few years with Hugo Chavez have really changed the environment and what impact it has on, not only the community in Venezuela but I think more broadly in Latin America. If I could I want to start with Gregg and Gregg what I would ask you is this we indicated it's been an year now since your appointment. I think, it was probably more than a year that Congress had passed legislation to create that office before you were even hired and - there at the same time, as we know, the US Government Congress, others have helped focus on this issue. There were a lot of questions raised whether within the workings of the State Department, the formal - diplomatic Center of the United States of US policy, there would be a place for you, a place for someone really to come in to be a kind of activist voice. Again not simply to monitor the problem but to combat the problem, so perhaps you can tell us how does it work now? That you have support and now that you are monitoring what seems to be the most serious of the problems as you see it and then when comes to combating, are you getting the support, where does it need to be brought? Andy, I think, in the year that I have been there I have no complaints about my support. I have I was first of all sworn in by the Secretary who offered me all these support that I needed and I have received that. I am my office is based in the bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. I have a very helpful Assistant Secretary, Barry Lowenkron who has extended all the help to me that I need. Most importantly we have in the State Department as anyone who has a position a global position like this. I have to my benefit the Embassy system. The Ambassadors throughout the world have been very, very helpful in identifying issues, approaching the government in question. Repeatedly maintaining those contacts following up on the issues at multiple levels and many times identifying incidents and problems before I can read about them or hear about them from someone else. I probably have more problems ordering paper and pens than I have anything else and I am being very serious. As far as the issues that we see, and I don't mean to make light of it but the business comes to us. We have had so many events just this week, some of them, centered in France. Jewish man was stabbed in the shoulder at a kosher restaurant just about two three days ago. Less than a week before that a young lady in Marseille was brutally assaulted and had a swastika carved into her stomach. In that case when Andy you ask about what we can do and what our embassies can do in this case, we had our Consulate General in Marseille look at this, get the government mobilized. There is one thing I can do in approaching the French Embassy here in Washington which we did do and they have responded. But it's to be able to get our Consulate Generals or our Ambassadors engaged on the ground in the country and in this case in Marseille they followed it up, they made very clear our concern, the US Government's concern and even made an approach to the young lady and her family that when I - in fact you go there next week, that I would like to in fact meet her. That hasn't been granted yet and I understand why. But where it's a system in place. Part of it is an education and letting people and embassies know that we are here and that we are not going away. And when you talk about combating it's the idea of when events happen, and although this is somewhat reactive, we go to these embassies, we go to see the Ambassadors, we call their aids, we talk to them and we tell them this happened. What is your country doing about it? What is the status of the investigation? We want to know. And we are going to keep asking questions. Part of the problem and part of the or I should say part of the strategy is to just let people know we are there and that we're doing something and that we're seeing and watching what they are doing. And whereas you may have this in the embassies, as I said, but from coming from Washington they are hearing about it in their own embassies and they have to report back that this is being asked off them by this Department of State. Henry we had the chance, some of us at AJC to speak with you and other representatives of the Jewish Committee in the UK at the beginning of the day. We recognize that there is been as a your community has reported in increasing the incidents of anti Semitism. There is a significant publicity that has been given to efforts to undertake boycotts of the State of Israel, the part of academic union, journalist union, potentially now trade union. Some of these events quickly broadcast around the world have elicited responses from other organizations in the United States, elsewhere in the world. You have a certain sense of certainly what the community is confronting in the UK, but I think you also have sense of how you must react when those of us abroad or others concerned about what we read or what we hear. Also feel it's it's their place to interject to speak. Tell us how should we understand what's going on in the UK today when we speak about anti Semitism both as you have reported when it comes to specific incidents affecting Jews and Jewish institutions, but also in the sort of rhetorical side of things what we have and Joe has identified and sometimes spoken of as a new anti Semitism when that anti Israel animus crosses to something attempting to demonize, to separate the Jewish state. These are elements that seem to be very much a part of what you're confronting in the UK? Help us understand how do you see them? Do we see them the same way? What would you like to hear? Would you like to see happen not just from the American Jewish Committee but from other other Jewish communities and organizations here and elsewhere. Andy, thank you. In the UK we are very aware that we have problem with anti Semitism, we have a problem with anti-Zionism. But I didn't think that the UK is unique in that, I have to say that we even hear reports that from time to time in parts of this great country there are instances of anti-Semitism and instances of anti-Zionism. But there seems to be a picture abroad and I don't know how many of you here today are American and how many of you are from other countries. But there certainly seems to be a picture in some parts of the American Jewish community that the Jews of Europe and many occasions, the Jews of Great Britain in particular are really in an awful state that we are treated like pariahs in our countries and really there is no future for us in our countries and the leadership of the communities in some of the European countries are digging their heads, sticking their heads into the sand and behaving like the leaders of the German Jewish community in the1930s. Now the first thing I want to say Andy is that before any of us say anything about anti Semitism or anti Zionism we have to establish the facts. We have to be sure about what we are speaking. It's very easy to jump to a conclusion as a result of something that you hear or mishear or read or more likely misread especially given the speed with which the Internet can send a message around the world. And people react in a way which is not only inappropriate but which is simply wrong. So the first thing is that we do this in the UK. Before any incident is declared to be an anti-Semitic incident, it has to fulfill certain criteria. And our community has an organization called the Community Security Trust, whose Director Richard Benson is with us here today who worked very, very closely with the Police. And frequently our definition of what is an anti Semitic incident is more restrictive than that which the police would apply to a particular happening. And we do that for a very important reason. It's so that we do not over react. So that when we say there have been as there were last year, 594 anti Semitic incidents in the UK. 594, it's the highest total since figures started to be kept back in 1984. We know that every one of those incidents will stand up to closer scrutiny. So we never overstate the case. We try not to under state the case. But we do feel that it's perhaps better to err on the side of caution rather than to cry wolf when something is not, in fact, not anti Semitic. Point number one stop it, what's going on? Point number two, do not over react to something which you hear and read. Andy you said what do we expect of other communities and other organizations around the world. I want to pay tribute to the American Jewish Committee and exclude them from any comments I make about other Jewish Organizations whether they are in America, or in Israel or other parts of the world. If you hear about something that's happened in the UK, or is supposed to have happened in the UK, you actually contact with the local community to check what the situation is before you respond if only others did. If only others were as responsible as that. I will give you an incidence. I wonder how many of you received an e- mail telling you that the United Kingdom Government had dropped holocaust studies from the curriculum in schools. Interesting how may of you received that e-mail, everybody. How many of you still believe it's true? It's this was an instance of how not to handle something. You know, we are very, very lucky, I don't want anybody to accuse me in anyway of being complacent about the situation in the UK. But we have and have had a succession of governments in recent years who have understood the concerns of the Jewish community and have understood our concerns for Israel. On holocaust studies, the present British government could not have been more supportive. It is on the national curriculum in our schools and friends it remains on the national curriculum in our schools. Government has funded schemes, whereby we are able to send two six formers that's 17 or 18-year-old High School students from every school in the country on trips to auschwitz who come back better prepared to speaks their colleagues about what they have seen. But one newspaper carried a report from an organization called the historical association which spoke about one school where one teacher had had problems with teaching holocaust studies because of sensitivities of Muslim students in that school. From that to developed this world wide e-mail and letter writing campaign castigating the British government, castigating the British Jewish community for allowing this to happen and it took up hours and hours of the time of my organization, of other organizations, trying to deal with it and the more that we sent out proper and full explanations about what had actually happened or rather what hadn't happened, the more we seemed to get e-mails back saying how could this happen. Now one of the ways that we combat anti-Semitism we should all do that, is by developing good and close relations with political leaders, you know, Andy you said the Board of Deputies came into being a long time ago. We were founded in 1760 and we were founded in 1760 by the four synagogues then existing in London who wanted to get on good political relations with the government of day who was the crown, there was the new king. A king whose name will resonate with all Americans in the room, King George IIIrd, said he lost us the colonies, he brought you into being. But the board came into being to ensure that we have good relations with government and we pride ourselves on having good relations with governments and we've got a particularly good relationship at the moment, with the Secretary of the State for Education. He didn't like getting a letter from the Simon Wiesenthal Center who hadn't bothered to consult us which really had a go at him for the appalling act of dropping holocaust education from the curriculum in English schools. You can imagine the problems that that caused us the time that had to be taken. I we have here, where this is part of our British delegation, the Director of the Holocaust Educational Trust Karen Pollock, who deals with his political advisors everyday on the issues of Holocaust Education. We had to get on the phone and explain a), We didn't understand what all the fuss was about, b) the letter had nothing to do with us, c) the letter came from an organization which frankly, at times, behaves incredibly irresponsibly and d), Can you please get on with working together on holocaust education because we feel that's actually a very good tool in combating anti-Semitism. So what we look for from organizations like yours is the responsibility that we get from an organization like yours. We'd like it from others, we'd like it from many Israelis and their organizations, who also waded in with their heavy boots on this, not actually knowing what the truth was. And caused us far more problems than would ever have existed, if they'd only taken the trouble to discover what the facts actually were before they began the campaign. Henry, thank you. Benedikt I can turn to you, I want to ask you a question particularly out of your experience now in Germany. At a number of international gatherings certainly programs that have evolved at the OSCE, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe or ODIHR part of the OSCE, the Organization for Democratic Institution Human Rights. Education is something that has always brought forward as a way to deal with the problem of anti-Semitism and frequently it's understood that should be holocaust education. That essentially a way to address the resurgence of anti Semitism - anti Semitic manifestations, is to help educate the younger generation. In terms of what happen during the holocaust. Probably there is no European country that has a longer record because of its history, as does Germany in holocaust education, in addressing this subject. What I want to ask is, what you think it's effectiveness of this is and is it a different subject when one looks at the problem of anti-Semitism coming from the right, coming from the neo Nazi, skinhead groups, as opposed to coming from new sources of anti Semitism. In some cases incidence emerging from Arab and Muslim populations or as we spoken of already the strong the anti-Israel animist. How do you see in the German education system, the effectiveness if you will, of holocaust education when it comes to attitudes towards Jews today and perhaps as well toward the state of Israel. Thank you. Well of course holocaust education as I mentioned has been part of the national education scheme for a very long time and it has worked for a very long time. It is part, so to speak, of our national mentality and has made holocaust remembrance part of our national fabric, if you wish. It is an entire a part of our mentality to have the holocaust present. However there have been changes, demographic changes and changes in generation and this of course makes it necessary to adapt our approach and it seems to me that experience shows that holocaust education is only reaching part of its purpose. If we talk about anti-Semitism, it seems to be empirically ever more clear, that it's not the same problem. If you want to raise awareness among young people on anti-Semitism, somehow you have really to connect to their life and connecting to their lives means connecting to their problems, to their biographies and if we have for instance new immigration classes, the classes in Berlin where 50 percent of the students are of North African origin, Turkish origin, Berlin is mostly Turkish. Then we have to really approach them in a specific way. The holocaust is not part of their national memory. It is with 50 percent of the Germans in the class but its not with that group, so we try to develop a new approach for these groups. We don't do it on our own because this is a field where many other countries have collected their experiences and it is within the OSCE that we have this organization the Helsinki Organization where we have coordinated our approach. With to some avail we have new methodology, we have now new material. It has been tested and it's peculiar in the point that it connects to the daily life of young people, trying to raise their sympathy, empathy and such, trying to be more effective. I think where at the beginning of the process in Germany and in other countries as well and would be interesting to know how the US for instance what kind of use and what kind of experience the US will have with these material. And if I could just follow-up, do you feel that you have had a constant in terms of the effectiveness of what's taught in the German schools or is there a kind of negative reaction that comes after a time when with the story of holocaust is brought forward? That is a question whether there is a kind of holocaust fatigue and the fatigue is a problem, if you don't connect with the people. That's the point, if you don't connect with the youth, if you continue transmitting to them messages, which they don't really feel with, which are not which do not raise their empathy, so teachers have to be trained to be sensitive on that and I suppose this is happening. We are certainly not dropping, nobody is dropping nobody is changing the curriculum for that kind of fatigue but we have to adapt it and we are in the midst of it in order to keep it alive. Thank you. Friends I turn now to Latin America. Communities that we have to come to know over the years here secure, strong, comfortable in their Jewishness and relatively comfortable in their societies, but also affected by the sort of global events and a figure that has emerged now on the global stage is your President there Hugo Chavez his efforts to carry attention and favor with some of the most unsavory figures around the world, not only in anti-American platform but one that has embraced the President of Iran and his views. We know that there had been events, the community has had to confront in in recent months. We know there was a strong feeling that Jewish community is here and elsewhere wanted to be with you earlier this year, help us understand what has this meant for the Jewish community in Venezuela. This populist policy in anti-Israel and anti-America one and if you might add not only for you in Venezuela but to what extent you feel elsewhere with Jewish communities in your neighboring countries, it's impact as well. Well it's I would say that somehow my community had a wake up call and it happened years ago in 2004 with a raid on our school which was world wide known was a, I believe, for a very first time that police entered by force to school which happened to be Jewish, searching for arms, weapons and of course, were not found and after that we asked for explanation, we never got it. So, I believe, first of all we have to understand where do we live? What kind of government we have? And its without any doubt in my mind we are under a dictatorship. It's a under veil of Democracy because everybody says that you are democratically elected. But once you go start acting you act as a dictator. And I actually I believe today more than ever we have a dictatorship. We are lucky enough that everybody is clear on its own position. The government and us and the conclusion is that they don't like us and we don't like them. So this is important to know but even though we have to understand it leaving in the same place we have to get some sort of communication. You cannot leave a part of it. Even though they if they don't want to talk to us. So what we have done so far, I will illustrate with an example. We had our four years anniversary just six weeks ago. And the last evening you heard Senator Kirchner speaking about her stay in Caracas was our keynote speaker of the event and she happens to be the first lady of Argentina and Argentina happens to be the best ally of Venezuela. So you imagine the First Lady of Argentina coming to Venezuela not to visit the President of Venezuela but to talk to Jewish Audience about the anniversary of CAIV and about anti-Semitism, about values, Judaism about her respect for reserve for Democracy etcetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I believe that gave the real message to the President and the President gave us his message. The message was nobody from the government came to that event telling us that listen we accept the challenge, we understand that you are strong because you are surrounded by friends and even the wife of his best friend came to talk to us instead of talking to him. But we don't get along. So you have your position, we have ours. So basically what we got is a little bit of respect. And I think there are, couple of thing that I have learnt through these years in my personal opinion that we have to do. One thing is we have to make some study to understand how people view us because we have a feeling that to perception that people look at us in a certain way. We could be wrong. To use the findings of the study and work on the image of our community which could be in the States, could be in England, could be in Germany, could be wherever because we don't pay attention to it. We think the things are granted to us and we have to make public whatever actions that we do in favor or being part of the country. I heard this morning talking about with the importance of the social work. Social work is a very important part of Jewish Activity anywhere in the world. The problem is that we believe being anonymous is the right thing to do. And I learnt that this time being anonymous is the wrong thing to do. We have to make it public that we are part of the country that we help and what we do being part of the country. And the third element that I I would like to close my remark at this point. is I believe that we have to pay very much attention to what's going on inside the community as part of the process of what to do. And my personal feeling is sometimes and I go along because I heard just during the lunch time that we don't stand tall enough. That we don't speak out enough strong and clear to the world that we are Jews. That we are proud of what we are, that we are very close to Israel and nobody is going to break the ties with our country. That whatever goes against Israel, against us and whatever goes against us, goes against Israel. So I believe this feeling and I have mentioned in one of the 1000 speeches of my President, he mentioned the following sentence. He said, "My Jews in Venezuela are okay." So then we understood we are (indiscernible) we are his Jews and we are doing okay. As long as we don't mess with the Israeli thing, then know it's this is a different story. We, I believe, that we managed to make our President understand that we Jews in Venezuela are exactly the same as Israelis. We are not different, the only difference is that we live in different places but we are one people. We stand shoulder to shoulder, so the problem here is if we as the leaders in our communities manage well enough to convince the members of our community which is the right way to go. And there its there is a discussion to going many places but what kind of profile you should have as a Jew when the kind of environment is not totally acceptable to what you want. Maybe here in the states, is very easy or in England to stand up and say, speak to the press or make a public declaration on on any subject that it bothers you. It doesn't work like this today in Venezuela and maybe in other countries, so this is my remark at this point. Thank you thank you for helping us understand what you are confronting and how it is, in ways, sounds to me, changing things that difficult as they are now, perhaps would prove better in the long term for you. The subject of of anti-Israel animists becoming a new form of anti Semitism was addressed earlier at the previous session. Joe when introducing this had made reference to it. In one specific area a number of us people here in the room, I looked at my colleague Ken Stern and Mike Whine were involved over the last few years in trying to press for an inclusive definition of anti Semitism that would attempt to describe and explain where that anti-Israel rhetoric crosses over and becomes a form of anti-Semitism with demonizing of the state of Israel, with the application to Israel of racist, of Nazi like turns and rhetoric and so on. We were able to secure the adoption by the European Union monitoring center, of what has been identified as a working definition of anti- Semitism. Some of you who were at a meeting this morning with Paul Goldenberg who runs the Police Hate Crime Training program of ODIHR heard how that within ODIHR a part of OSCE for there at least the operational material they use this working definition as well. But it's no accident that it's referred to as a working definition. I think probably one of the most difficult things on a political level would be get governments to acknowledge that this is a form of anti-Semitism, this anti-Israel animus. I think we understand that instinctively, reflexively and we spent a lot of time trying to explain and convince others of this. A working definition is the first step. The Director of the UMC decided that it needs to remain a working definition because if they saw the formal adoption there is the fear that people would withdraw from it. Greg, you are now undertaking work perhaps, a volume will come out now from the state Department that will look at the problems of anti Semitism worldwide. How have you understood this aspect of anti-Semitism and how will it both inform the report you present. How easy or how difficult has it been on an official level to convince other governments that this is now something they need to recognize when they when you together speak about the problem of anti-Semitism. I spoke of this issue several months ago with a with an ambassador from an Arab state that I will not identify. It was very good about it. He said that the line between the two anti Zionism and anti Semitism is very, very thin. It is our judgment, it's our belief that it is a vehicle by which to attack Jews. If Israel could be viewed as the collective Jew then anti-Zionism creates a chance and ability, a vehicle by which another form of anti-Semitism can be carried out. We have a web page, we have placed my, my office has a web page on the State department website. And we have placed this definition on that website. Now for a number of reasons we have not formally said that we adopt this. But we use this as, for lack of a better term, a model. I know that the British all parliamentary parliamentary investigation in anti-Semitism in UK suggested, if I am not wrong, that that definition be formally adopted. There are many cases, there are many instances where the ability to divide the two issues provides those wishing to express anti-Semitism with a sort of a cover. To say well I am not criticizing Jews as Israel. And yet we all know that in many cases as that Arab ambassador said to me the line is very thin and it presents that person with an opportunity to do harm. So it is and again it is many times another excuse. Henry can I turn to a subject that you are dealing within the UK, other European countries confronting it as well which is to place the role of the Arab and the Muslim communities in Europe and the degree to which this is the source of the problem that we are discussing today. It has seemed to be a source certainly for incidents of anti-Semitism for tax on Jewish targets. We have seen that in France, we have seen it in Belgium. These communities themselves may not be undifferentiated but sometimes when one is speaking of the new problems today in Europe. One has the the impression that there is the significant clash of communities, a battle between Jews and Jews and Muslims reflected perhaps from the Middle East conflict, where those Battles are played out in European streets but then in, perhaps the UK is one example, we tend to think of numbers. We see the Jewish communities in these countries only a fraction of the Arab populations. People begin to feel that by political calculations you are inherently on the defensive and that again if this is a real clash, the future does look rather dim. So help us to understand is that a fair assessment of their possibilities of finding some reasons to be optimistic or at least to be more cautious about pessimism when we look at this today. I think every body in this room now, was present at the lunch session and heard Ayan Ali talk about her experiences in Netherlands. And its quite clear that what she experienced was absolutely appalling and its equally clear that the potential for her experiences to be felt by other people perhaps in not such prominent positions as she in other Europe is is enormous and it's a constant source of worry to us. There was a recent opinion poll in the UK which found that 46 percent of UK Muslims agreed that British Jews are in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics. It's astonishing, if the Jews only had a fraction of the power that our enemies ascribe us, Boy! Would the world be a better place for us. You know, its it's astonishingly our enemies that we control everything from every angle and if only if only we had a fraction of the influence that they think that we do. The Hands up. The number's game is one that we can never win. You know in the UK there are perhaps between 300 and 350,000 Jews perhaps perhaps more. There are somewhere between 1.8 and two million Muslims. You know, it doesn't take very long to realize that the potential influence politically of that number of Muslims is far greater than the actual potential influence in the Jewish Committee. In France the Jewish community is between five and 600000 strong. There are between five and six million Muslims. Its and you find similar percentages in some other European countries and some of our European cities in in the Netherlands, in Belgium you actually find the percentage of Muslims in the population of their city is is approaching 50 percent, perhaps even more. So the numbers game is not one that we can ever win. But where we can win is by promoting the values that we hold so dear. And by pointing out to people that Jewish values are in fact the values of the civilizations in which we live. You know, it it's true Judaeo-Christians values under pin Western civilization. And so I agree in a slightly different way with what our friend from Venezuela said we have to be proud as Jews, I'll leave the Israel question to one side. It goes without saying that. Almost I don't think there is an organized Jewish Community in the world that does not support Israel and will not support Israel. But we have to stand proud as Jews. We have to know what being Jewish means ourselves and make sure that our children know what that means and make sure that the societies in which we live also know what being Jewish means and see that actually being Jewish and Jewish values are not only, no different from their core values but actually have an awful lot in common. And that we and they ought to be standing together to deal with the problem that these large numbers of Muslim immigrants into so many countries in the world pose. You know, we come to this from the point of view of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is not a Jewish problem. It's a problem that affects Jews but it's not a Jewish problem. It's a problem for the society in which it occurs. And if those societies can see that the potential of increased anti-Semitism strikes right at the very heart of the values in which they pride themselves as existing. Then we have allies in the fight against anti-Semitism, and we need those allies. I actually think that we can find some allies within Muslim communities. I I can't speak with the same knowledge of other countries in Europe or elsewhere in the world. But in the UK, there isn't a Muslim community. There is a series of Muslim communities who come from different places and who often have greater differences between themselves than they do even in reality with the host society in which they live. And in the UK, we are finding ways of working with Muslim groups who are prepared to buy in British society and by into British values because if we find them, if we identify them and it isn't easy and its taking a long time, we are beginning to do it. Then, I think, there is room for being less pessimistic picking up your way of looking at it, less pessimistic than the numbers themselves will lead us to be. Yeah. In a way I'd would like to address to repeat what I said on the anti-Semitism education before. If we adopt an approach which says as it was articulated at lunch time, something is fundamentally wrong with the Holy Book of the citizens of this city with the scholars, with the students of this school if we have such an approach and we go to the students in order to tell them that anti-Semitism is not accepted in our society. This is a recipe for disaster, we will not to be heard and the whole message will be lost. It is absolutely important that we build trust, that some kind of dialogue is instituted and only if this happens and it's difficult enough to reach people who are from complicated backgrounds, who come with biographies, who came to Germany for instance after the first war in Lebanon, which carried their families to (indiscernible) with them and terrible souvenir to terrible reminders of the war. If we then want to talk to them about anti-Semitism, about Israel, it's really hard if we do not win their hearts, if we do not work for instance with the Imams, we have to work with them. And so we have to really calibrate our messages and be aware of how complicated things are. There is something in your earlier remarks Benedikt where you spoke about your educational efforts and to say that the holocaust education was prominent but not enough. Can you tell us, do you do you have any a good idea of how the Turkish students, let us say, are responding, are they ignoring it are they working out. You do you feel you are having an effect on the Turkish students in Germany? It is amazing enough and I must say I was amazed to learn that there is very little knowledge about that. In Berlin, we have 20,000 or 30,000 refugees from Lebanon. There we know the situation much better and is, as as just described. With the Turkish, it's a large number, we have about 3.5 million Turkish, citizens of Turkish origin and immigrants. They do take part in the national education but it's difficult to raise them sort of with the same feeling and the same sentiment to get the same associations as we do have with the holocaust. We are doing we are we are continuing to research about that, it's done on the state's level. I don't yet have the the results on that. We do not have any problem with the Israeli diplomats back home, because we have I believe during these years discussed our differences and discussed the role that each one has to play and set out the limits on each of us. And related to State of Israel, I I would like to say that we are very very proud to say that Israel is taking care of us. And I believe with within Israel mentality is that wherever there is a Jew, is there a problem. So it doesn't exist a difference between the number of Jews or wherever you are if we are going to be worried about you or not. In our case, we are working together, we are working coordinated and we discuss our problems and we come up with solutions. Sometimes which are public and many times are not public. What we have done I believe publicly and I I would like to then to single out the this is the cooperation between Latin American Communities and we have a changed information on what's going on in our country and ask the communities the Jewish community in Latin American countries to get in touch with their own governments and let them know, listen, this is what's going on in Venezuela. Doing that, we created a climate of awareness about what's going on in Venezuela, and creating somehow a protection, a belt a safety belt, and let the government know again that he is being under surveillance, so this kind of cooperation on this level has worked out very well. Same thing has been done with Europe. We have got in touch with Germany, especially the government official and the community, Spain, France and of course the states very often actually Gregg and I we met, we met I believe a month after he was named as an officer for the State Department. And these kind of things are which are creating some how a protection for our community, or for any other community in the world. So I believe, these kind of collaboration between communities is very important. One more thing I would like to add, I believe that AGC has a very important role to play. A very important role to play because we have to adopt what's the code that we are going to comply with being Jews. There are certain things that you have say, "Yes, yes, yes" or "No, no, no." And sometimes you know you know there is a policy of non-intervention or consultation with the community. "What we shall do, we are going to do together with you", this is right but not entirely. There is some things, that should be a code as Jews and I insist on this point, but I believe in my feeling, you know, again in the lunch session is stronger today that as Jews we have to speak out loud and clear that there is our strength and we have to adopt a common goal to all of us which we agree upon. Of course, adapting to the situation of each country, but this common goal in American Jewish committee, which has today had this partnership with 24 countries, which is huge. I was impressed by the way that one I believe Switzerland, I believe one of them that I read I was impressed in Europe that they started the partnership. So I believe there is a way of communicating, getting this, this real partnership between all of us and making us understand that this is code, this is what we stand for, we want to fight for it we are going to let know every body what we are why we do it and how we do it? Thanks. Henry any comment on Israeli? Yeah there is. There maybe a few people in this room who are older than 59. And I don't know and I wouldn't want to ask. But I default that for most of us here, we have all grown up in a world where Israel has been there. And we do not what it was like, and cannot appreciate what it was like to live in a world before the State of Israel came into being. So for us Israel is there and Israel is part of the anchor of our lives, whether it is as religious Jews, cultural Jews, as ethnic it doesn't make Israel is there for us and plays a very important part in our lives. Does the state of Israel always do everything that it should or could for us? That's a very big question Andy you said we were together in Jerusalem only a few months ago for a meeting of the global forum against anti Semitism and in principle that's a great idea. It's a method of Jewish communities in Israel and throughout the world coming together to exchange information about anti-Semitism, to look at ways of combating anti-Semitism, to help each other. What we face problems with anti-Semitism and it's such a good idea that the Israelis have now tried it three times because they have tried it twice before. And on each occasion, for internal Israeli political reasons it petered out. Now one of the points that we made on this occasion, this is only the first one that I have been to there were some people there who were veterans of all three. And the point was made, that we really don't want to have to come back in two or three years time and start again with a fourth global against anti Semitism. And we were assured that on this occasion things would be picked up. The points were made from communities around the world would listen to and the program would be set out and things would actually happen. I hope, I hope that will be the case but please don't ask me to put any money on it. I am not a betting man any way. Because Israel is a very political country with a very strange political system, and when you have a change in the politically internal politics that Israeli government and ministries change hands then you never really know what is going to happen and what is going to be picked up and taken forward. And it maybe that although the existence of Israel is so vital to all of us and nothing I say should detract from that. It maybe that the communities in the rest of the world, have to work with each other because it maybe that we can't rely on something like the global forum actually doing what everybody would want it to do. Thank you - we are drawing close to the end of this session so I want to just turn one last time to Gregg and then to Benedikt. Gregg perhaps, you could, in the few minutes remaining share with us something of your experience of trying to address the problem of anti Semitism as it's appeared in the Arab world. You've had the ability to travel as an official of the US government to raise this issue with the foreign governments, with political leaders as much as many of us here in Jewish organizations are engaged in the problem it's not something that we have been fortunate enough to do. So tell us if you would, what's come of it? What do you think will come of it? What was your reaction when you had this opportunity? I traveled to in December I was in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and of course I went Israel. Presently I have a member of my staff who should be concluding a visit to Yemen, Qatar, and the UAE. So we've had some exposure to the area, we have also visited with many of the Arab ambassadors here in Washington. I wish I could be more positive, I can say though that reception is polite. They understand we have a problem, that we presented to them they try to and I say try to differentiate the problem of saying well we are not against Jews as we are against Israel and yet they do say and I had a very interesting conversation in Egypt with a journalist, not a government journalist - but just a journalist, who said that many Egyptians don't see the difference between the Jew anywhere else and an Israeli. I think in general, having visited the communities in Morocco and Tunisia that they are not living necessarily precariously but they are they are there, they don't have it too badly, as it were. Tunisia worries me slightly more, because because of the country at south but they are okay. Egypt is is I think at a point where with all the other problems I have, but there are not that many Jews there, there are only about 200 to 300. They they kind of make it day to day. As I said staff, one of my staff is in the gulf region and he had visited the community in Yemen as some of you may know recently was involved in threat from a rebel community from some tribe in out there called the Al Houthi who threaten their presence. We were, received - our requests were received very warmly by the Government of Yemen to help with them to get them out of harms way, to get them aid and to get them to the capital and out of the battle zone where they are presently now fighting. My staff was able to reside with them, talk with them. We have gotten through the government, them you know, we've got help from them. So it's a mixed bag in short. I think there are problems, I think, there are problems with holocaust in Arab world. I think that there are, as I said, with that Egyptian journalists there are problems were separating Jews from Israel in of itself and more more work needs to be done, my staffer Damon was able to talk to the people at Al Jazeera and Al Arabia on how these issues are dealt with on the press level, I myself have spoken to the people in Al Jazeera and if you kind of push them a little harder, you go a little bit deeper, and if you are there long enough with them you get beyond the surface, you see the problems that exist and I was in here for all of Hirsi Ali's talk today but I have met and talked with her. She expresses great concern about these satellite radios, coming out of the Middle East television and how they are into - she calls them the dish cities of Europe and you have Imams going on these broadcast which say the most vile things, spreading the conspiracy theories - really agitating and perhaps part of why we sent Damon there. So it's a mixed bag, we are going to try to go out again. I did have, some of you may have read about an exchange back in January, there was a reception, I was very honored. There was a reception for me on Capital Hill almost after an year I had come into the position but a number of Ambassadors came and one of them was the Saudi ambassador, Bahraini Ambassador came and the Moroccan, Tunisian but the Saudi Ambassador came and he was interviewed by the Jerusalem Post which in and of itself was an interesting thing but he was asked a question about the holocaust and he said everyone knows how the holocaust, everyone in the Arab world knows about it. He said it is ridiculous to deny it. Now take that for what it is, take that for what it's worth. He was the out going Ambassador, he didn't have to come and he didn't have to make these remarks to an Israeli newspaper. Is it a new day? I don't know, but it's an interesting point and to summarize it, it's we will see. Excuse me Andy before you ask the final round of questions I am going to have to excuse myself. I have to train I have to get so I just like to prematurely thank the panelists for their time, their effort, their presence, in sharing all their thoughts and ideas with us. It's very much appreciated and wish you Bon Voyage home, thank you. I was going to ask only one last question to Benedikt and then conclude the session. This this six months Germany holds the Presidency of the European Union, - And one of the things that had been reported coming into the Presidency was an interest in trying to develop a sort of common European Union approach in dealing with the issue of hate crimes, dealing with the question of holocaust denial. I think whenever EU Presidency emerges, they are always probably many more hopes and exceptions that can be reached within that six month period. But in this area, what what has, if anything been the progress made and you feel that under the German leadership there is at least a movement toward taking these issues more seriously finding ways within the growing EU membership to elevate the attention, to have a more uniform approach. Well two points on that, 30 seconds each. The first one, it has been a success for the European Union that a framework decision was shaped on racism including and holocaust denial. After a a couple of years of internal debate within the European Union, we succeeded finally in shaping a compromise language on that, calling on all the European States to make holocaust denial a punishable crime. Second point, more political, I think it was a good thing to develop more and closer Trans-Atlantic Corporation on this issue. It has already been closed but it in the course of these days I've had the feeling that sometimes on the American side in the population with you, there is a feeling that the European's are not doing enough, that they are acquiescent to Syria, acquiescent to Iran, not really a a willing to take challenges and that they are too soft that they are talking too early with countries like Syria and Iran. Well, I think in the mean time on these issues we have developed closer views. We have seen that from the American side visits have been made to Syria, even Iran has been approached on a certain level. The diplomacy on the nuclear issue is developing and is backed by the United States. So I see a closer cooperation on all of these issues as one of the results of the European of the German Presidency of the EU. Thank you. With that I want to thank, as Joe did, I will on myself, Gregg, Henry, Benedikt, Fred thank to all of you. And it's it's only five after four we said we'd end at four. I am sorry for ending early, but thank you.