Former Wall Street analyst, Andy Kessler, follows the money into the frontiers of medicine and discovers that people may never have heart attacks again in his book, The End of Medicine.
Andy Kessler is a former hedge fund manager who now writes on investment trends in technology and communications. His first book Wall Street Meat: Jack Grubman, Frank Quattrone, Mary Meeker, Henry Blodget and Me was published in March of 2003. His next book, Running Money: Hedge Fund Honchos, Monster Markets and My Hunt for the Big Score was published by HarperCollins on September 14th of 2004. Running Money was added to the New York Times Business Bestseller list on November 7, 2004.
Andy is a frequent contributor to the Wall Street Journal op-ed page and has written for Wired, Forbes Magazine, The Weekly Standard, LA Times, The American Spectator magazine and techcentralstation.com and thestreet.com websites.
Andy Kessler is a former hedge fund manager who now writes on investment trends in technology and communications.
His first book Wall Street Meat: Jack Grubman, Frank Quattrone, Mary Meeker, Henry Blodget and Me was published in March of 2003. His next book, Running Money: Hedge Fund Honchos, Monster Markets and My Hunt for the Big Score was published by HarperCollins on September 14th of 2004. Running Money was added to the New York Times Business Bestseller list on November 7, 2004.
Andy is a frequent contributor to the Wall Street Journal op-ed page and has written for Wired, Forbes Magazine, The Weekly Standard, LA Times, The American Spectator magazine and techcentralstation.com and thestreet.com.
His message is nobel, but how would it be possible to switch the industry of medicine to preventative? There would be resistance from many directions, worst of all the drug companies. And it's not as if we could just switch to prevention and ignore the people who get sick during that long transition. I wish there were more possibilities in this direction, but it's to ideological for me.
I don't know if he is saying that doctors themselves are hindering the advancement of medical technology themselves, however, he points out that the big medical businesses create incentives that it is in the business' and therefore the doctors' best interest that we are unhealthy as opposed to healthy. It creates larger revenues for drug companies to keep us "living" slowly, than for us to live healthily and preventative beforehand. His theories on the cost of medical technology dropping within the next few decades is interesting and optimistic, when the new American dream is to find a job that offers health insurance.
I question the accuracy of Kessler's portrayal of doctors and other health care workers and their role in the advancement of medical technology. He seems to make an argument that advances in medical technology are being hindered by doctors who fear the threat of technology infringing upon the significance of their jobs. In reality, the medical industry in America is run by big business, not the health care providers themselves.
Ok, I'm gonna try to talk loud, can you guys hear me, can you hear me ok? Ok, good,cause this microphones are, don't always work and this way I can walk around. Um,thanks for coming. Um, its fun to do this here, because I've been traveling around thecountry and uh, when I talk to groups outside of Silicon Valley, they give me funny lookswhen I tell them that, you know, we create industries from nothing. And uh, they go, noyou don't and I go, well no, actually we do. We, you know, that uh, in Silicon Valleythings get cheaper by 30% a year and you create these, these brand new markets, not overnight, but over a decade, while no one's, no one's watching and all the sudden we getthese big, massive industries.So, some of you may know who I am. I've written a couple books about Wall Street andabout Silicon Valley, and so, I, for a long time, I started out as an electrical engineer, likea lot of folks around here and tripped across a job on Wall Street. I worked at PaineWebber and then at Morgan Stanley as an analyst who followed semi-conductivecompanies; Intel, Motorolla, Texas Instruments, AMD, Cyprus, VSI, LSI... you know allthe names around here, and a lot of the folks that I worked with, besides getting' takenaway in cuffs, I should say that my first job, the first guy I sat next to was a guy by thename of Jack Grubman who uh, he didn't quite get taken away in cuffs, but almost and Iworked at Morgan Stanley, the investment banker I worked with was Frank Quatronneand I've worked with (unidentified) and I had befriended Henry Blodget and a lot of theseguys, I won't mention the name, but perhaps Jack Grubman, knew people at thecompanies they follow that would kind of whisper in their ear what the next quartersearnings are going to be, right. And if you working on Wall Street and somebody says,"hey, AT&T's gonna make 22 cents and everybody else thinks its 20 cents, then you canmake investors a lot of money and you know thats what a lot of analysts do.Now, I didn't know anybody, so stupid me, I was an engineer trying to figure out whatthe technology was and what the long term trends were and uh, so I had to do it someother way. And the way I did it is by just looking at Silicon Valley and what makes itwhat it is today, which is this whole idea that every time, you know, the next generationof line widths from Intel or any of these chip companies, the next big fad, the chips getsmaller, cheaper, faster, better and you know, the cost per bit gate function drops by 30%when you get to these huge growth marks, we don't know what they are. PC's, cellphones,digital cameras, iPods, you know, on and on and on. And so, rather than run around andtry to figure out what the next quarters gonna be, I did the lazy way of doing it, right? Iwould just close my eyes and count to ten. Every time costs went down, right, you closeyour eyes and count to ten and boom, six months later you get this, this growth mark. Andit worked again and again and again and so I hit the sort of lazy man's job on Wall Street.And um, left Wall Street about ten years ago and started a hedge fund that a partner and Iran out of a, above the um, university art store in Palo Alto on Hamilton. And there wastwo of us in this dumpy, dusty office, probably as big as this table here. Certainly smallerthan the chairs that you guys are sitting in today and we did the same thing. We went withbandwidth. You know we said that every time bandwidth gets cheaper, which no onebelieved ten years ago, right, you close your eyes, count to ten and these spectacularthings happen. So we started with 10 million dollars, which is much too small for a hedgefund and by the summer of '99 we had a billion dollars under management and peoplewere trying to throw money at us.You know we had, meet with two groups from from the Middle East at one week at IlFornaio in Palo Alto and each of them tried to, tried to wire 500 million dollars to us thenext day and, like its some petro dollar unit, that I didn't know about and luckily we didthe stupid thing, although it is the right thing, which is we said no. We said, sorry, wealready have too much money, we were looking for small companies and too muchmoney chasing small companies is never a good idea. And so we said no to the firstgroup. Then we said no to the second guy and on the way back to our office, from IlFornaio to the university art store, I turned to my partner and I said, not only should wenot take their money, whatever money we have, this billion dollars, we should ship backto our investors and as they say in Wall Street, there is no bell that rings at the top or thebottom of the market, but these two groups from the Middle East, trying to throw moneyat us certainly were the case.And so I had been writing for the Forbes and the Wall Street Journal op ed page and Idecided, gee maybe I can write a book. And so, I wrote a book about working on WallStreet with Jack Grubman and Frank Quattrone. I wrote another book about running thishedge fund and you know all the crazy things that go on when you're running a hedgefund. And both books did well and "Running Money" was a, had a New York TimesBestseller list and so my publisher said, hey uh, what else you got? And I was like, whatdo ya mean what else I got? Well, you know you gotta write another book. I go, well, Iwrote a book about working on Wall Street and another one about running hedge fund, Ihaven't done anything else, you know there is nothing else to write about. Well, go dosomething. What else? There's nothing else to write about. He goes, "Well, go dosomething." Right, its funny, the guy's telling me, you gotta go do something so you canwrite a book about it. Well, uh. I didn't know what to do, so what I did was, whatssomething thats worked again and again in my career is that I just started calling friendsup and saying, what you do? What's going on.So I called an old friend who was a salesman at Morgan Stanley and uh, institutionalsalesman would call on accounts, he's out in San Francisco, I used to go skiiing with him.And so, I met him at the Oasis on El Camino for a couple of beers and um, I walked inand "You look great" and I said, "How ya doing?" And he says, "Well, I'm better". I go,"Better? What do you mean better?" You know its like the Monty Python, (Unidentified)to better get me a bucket, oh well you have to see the movie. And I go what do you mean?And he goes oh, you didn't hear the story? No. Well, turns out he was skiing in sunvalley, and I said well, thanks for inviting me, right. And he goes, no, trust me, you don'twant to be on this trip. But he's out there, beautiful sunny day and his skies go out fromunder him and he bangs his head on a mogul and he's you know, shaking and he goes intothe lunch place and has a beer or two, figuring that would help in getting his senses back,it didn't work, so he goes down to the bottom and he, and he visits the doctor, it was awoman doctor on the premises. Had to wait in line behind two people who had hit theirheads on a tree that day... anyway, they take an x ray and the woman says, it looks like apiece snapped off on the top of your spine and you may have broken your neck so theyroll him on a board and duct tape his head to this board and here's this guy going, whatthe hecks going on and they put him in an ambulance to take him to Boise and just beforehe leaves, the woman comes up and says, you know, we think you've broken your neck,but don't worry about this now, but on the x ray it looks like there's a tumor, the size of acocktail olive on the top of your neck. You may want to have that checked out. You knowand here's a three hour bumpy ride and this guys freaking out.They do a CT scan at Boise and the doctor comes back and says, good news, you didn'tbreak your neck, bad news is, there's this tumor on the top of you neck, you know, youmight want to have that... Ok, i get it. Comes back here. He's got multiple myeloma,eighteen months of treatment, they take your bone marrow out and they harvest your stemcells and then they pour, what's basically battery acid through to clean it out. They putyour stem cells back in to rebuild it and you know the good news is he's fine because he'shaving beers with me over at the Oasis. But I turn to him and I said, what you're tellingme is that skiing saved your life? And he says, well, yeah, it did. I said, you know, I gottause that line with my wife to justify some ski trips, and, but I'm forty-seven and that's nottoo old, not too young, the late baby boomer, but this scared the crap out of me and uh, abrother-in-law, who was in much better shape than I am, works out all the time, has aheart attack in the middle of the night. They rush him to the hospital, shove a couplestints in, on blood thinners for the rest of your life. Um, a woman friend was scuba divingand hurt her back, got an MRI they thought they saw something on her kidneys, itscancer, half of one kidney is removed and again and again, you hear these stories of sortof accidental diagnosis and uh, so, I got scared, I'm forty seven, I haven't been to thedoctor for ever. I talk to my wife, she says, why don't you go in for a, your forty year physical, right.I go to our family physician. I say, we have a family physician? She says, yes, we have adoctor. So we go into this doctor and he goes, what are you doing here? I here for theforty, he says, your forty-seven. I know, I'm not good at math. I'm an engineer, but I'm notgood at math. And so, he uh, I had been in for a blood test a couple days before and so,you know you sit there with the nurse who takes your temperature and all that stuff, so hecomes in and in less than three minutes, takes a tongue depressor and shoves it down mythroat, looks in my ears, thumps on my chest, takes my blood pressure and then, and thisis what really set me off, takes out a rubber hammer and bangs my knee with it, right?And I look at this guy and I go, that's it? That's all you have? You know, you're whole bagof tricks, this is Silicon Valley, we got computers all over the place. You rip out a rubberhammer? He goes, ok, lets look at your blood tests. So he takes out the blood tests and hegoes well, your blood pressure was a little high, lets check your cholesterol, oh yourcholesterol is borderline high, you know, do you eat red meat? I go, yeah. Egg? Yeah. Hesays, well you know, you might want to get your down. I said, well why? He says, wellthe literature says to get your cholesterol down. And I go well what literature? He goes,the literature. Trust me on this one. You know you gotta get your cholesterol down or elsewe're gonna put you on a regime of statins, lipator and whatever else. I go, am I gonnahave a heart attack? He goes, you know, I don't know. We don't know. Just, the literaturesays get your cholesterol down, so you know. Am I, do I have cancer, you know should igo skiing and bang my head, I'm trying to get some answers from this guy.So uh, I leave, I go to the parking lot and you know, the brave guy that I am, I fire mydoctor from the parking lot. Right. I go thats it, he's fired, I'm going off the grid, I'mgonna go figure out if I'm healthy or not or if there is any tools around here in SiliconValley that can save my life, I'd rather go bang my head skiing. So, I started, again,calling more people, going to visit companies and um, ended up at the Palo Alto MedicalFoundation with a radiologist by the name of Dr. (unidentified), 70 year old guy, fantasticguy, and uh, and he agreed to let me sit and watch him read mammograms for awhile andyou know, one its rare that doctors let you do that, but second, you know, when you'rewriting a book, you look for these sort of vivid scenes and funny stories that you can tellcause this book, its just a bunch of funny stories, which I'll tell you some of them. Andum, and you know, I said I'm forty-seven, intellectually or emotionally I'm twelve and sonothing better than to sit around doing the Beavis and Butthead routine readingmammograms and so I'm cracking jokes a mile a minute, this guys not laughing at any ofem. And you can imagine what some of them are, but you know, mammograms are, its x-rays, right, its x rays looking for breast cancer, you know, its like a scene out of thesixties. There is a machine that these films are, black and white films are on and when theguy wants to go to the next one, he pushes a button and you hear, whooo, you know theselittle motors worrying and then next set comes and the guys got a magnifying glass andhe's looking at these things and uh, speaking into a Dictaphone, right and I go, this is, I'msitting in the middle of Silicon Valley, you know if I was somewhere else, it wouldn'tdisturb me, but this is all you got?And so he's looking and so there's forty million mammograms done in the U.S. everyyear, two hundred thousand cases of breast cancer, so that's uh, one half of 1% and uh, alot of, a lot of regions, mammograms are read twice. Ok, so there two readings, this is afull employment act for radiologists, right because, and its a 100 bucks, or a 129 buckseach time a radiologists reads, so it 200 and something bucks to have mammograms read.And why? Well because they are in a dark room with a magnifying glass looking forpatterns that they may or may not, you know show to have actual breast cancer or not, andthen biopsies, its all terribly messy. But this guy was sitting there reading them. And oncein awhile he'd push a button. And uh, and below the films, these black and white films,were these monitors about this size and on these monitors would be the exact sameimage, but there would be this black (unidentified) or triangles or something and thenyou'd go oh, I see R2 (unidentified), oh R@ (unidentified) i don't see and, I was going, isthis R2D2, did I miss an episode of Star Wars i never, or is it radiologists too. I go what isthis? He goes oh no thats this computer system we use, its a system, you read themammograms in and um, it using neuro networks it looks for patterns, its a company thatjust got sold actually down on 85, when you go from 101 to 280 to pass so R2, so sureenough since 2000 they have perfected a system that can find 9-16%, you could arguewith the numbers, more cases of breast cancer than a radiologist on his own. And younow, its just spectacular technology and its still just a start. But finally, starting to findsomething where technology is making a difference in medicine. And whats thedifference its making? Well, it got rid of one radiologist, right? How about the second one?So I asked the guy, hey, do you ever see the day where R2 will be the first read and notthe second read? Oh, no, no, no... that could never happen? You need the expertise ofradiologists in this pattern matching and I said well, I'm not so sure. About a third ofmammograms today are the second read is done by a computerated detection, CAD, forcomputer design, but in medical terms its detection. And so um, here's a start. And uh,then I go home and in the mail that day, it took me four months to get me a doctorsappointment with my family physician. It took two days to get his bill, right. 440 bucksfor the five minute, three minute physical and another 220 bucks for the blood test. And now I'm livid, right?And so I go and I start... I go on the web and I say if I have some disease, I'm gonna figurethis out. So I start ordering genetic test kits. You know am I predisposed to colon canceror I left the ovarian cancer ones on there for their own, because I figures, I... And by theway, these genetic tests were a bunch of huey, but um, I ordered them anyway. So I havethis pile of them on my desk and there is a funny story here where I also went and Iordered a genetic test kit to see if I had Willebrand's Type II disease which shows up invarious types of dogs, right and so, I think, i fooled these dog DNA test places. So thesethings come and they come with these vials, these test tubes, right, and so, you got to fillthese test tubes with blood. Now I get skirmish when I see blood, but I say well, how thehell am I going to fill this up?So I started running around to Quest and LabCorp to say, you know can I get, can youtake my blood? They go well, lets see your doctor's signature, you know your doctor hasto prove this. I go no, I fired my doctor, I just want to do this on my own. So I went to thelocal pharmacy in Menlo Park and I said, uh, excuse me, you know sheepishly, somepharmacist walks by, so um, do you guys sell syringes here. And uh, he said, uh, not sincethe '70's. And then threw me out of the store.So, I uh, ended up getting th blood tests and maybe I'm genetically predisposed to coloncancer and maybe I'm not, but I then started following cardiologists around. I spent aweek at Cornell Medical in New York and watching what they do and sure enough I findmyself in a catheter lab, I'm wearing a white coat that says "visiting student". It was aseminar that they put, it was me and 99 twenty-year olds. Which, you know, they all keptlooking at me like, who's the creepy old guy hanging out with these, and it was about80% women, kids who were thinking about going to medical school, were going to theseminar. So you know I felt like a jerk and so I said, you know, They go oh, uh careerchange for you? I go, no, I don't think so. But I am, I'm an investor and I'm looking attechnologies, there is something interesting that you have.And you know, it turns out even in the most modern catheter lab even where someone hasa heart attack and they open up a hole in your groin and they take a guide wire and theyput a catheter up there and then a balloon that opens up the artery and then the stint thatgoes in. You know, a lot of stuff was invented here, perfected here, you know, Dr. JohnSimpson, who ACS and then sold it to (unidentified). And so I find myself in this catheterlab and there's, you know a sixty seven, sixty year old women so its paid for by Medicare,who had a heart attack and there she was laid out and there's a doctor. There is threedoctors and two attendant nurses and this doctor's sitting there, you know, like bitting histongue and squinting and shoving this catheter, you know, this guide wire, its like he'sthreading a needle. You know, I couldn't tell what he was doing, like, you know, what doyou do? And there is an x ray and you can see this woman's artery. All the sudden thiswire shows up and he starts looking, you know, am I going too far, too little, and youknow its the most analog experience I've ever seen. And sure enough, you know, yousquirt some dyes, this is called an angiogram where you take a look, a then boom, herarteries light up on screen and there it is. You can see the clogged arteries that werecollapsed or clogged and then watch the balloon go in and then blow em up, and then the stints.Then I had gone out with friends the night before in New York and we had gone to Smithand (unidentified) and I had ordered the brontosaurus burger, right, the one they bring to youyou car in the Flinstones, where it tips it over, so I figured, if there wasn't, you know,gunk whipping through my arteries, so I said, you know... I had looked up at the seminar,to just go have a look, to do the catheter procedure, Medicare reimburses the hospital5,299 bucks, ok. And so I said, you know, I think my Visa card has at least that on thecredit line, I wonder if I could put my Visa down and they could lay me out and shove thecatheter, because my doctor certainly couldn't tell me anything and you know that wasn't going to happen.But I then went on a quest saying, ok, first thing I'm going to do is, I'm going to figure outwhether I'm going to have a heart attack any time soon, because if you look at thenumbers in health care, its a 1.8 trillion dollar business. The big three that money is spenton is heart, stroke and cancer. So if your going to do any change to the amount of dollarsthat are spent on health care, you gotta resolve those three first. And obesity is coupledwith heart disease, but you know, if you could figure out heart disease as, first, and thenwork on the rest, you got something.So, I'm in Palo Alto, right and uh, like anything else I've ever looked at in my life, itswithin ten miles of Palo Alto, right, plus or minus, and I found a company in the otherdirection from here, but in San Mateo, that does 3D imaging. My kids play uh, Halo anduh, World of Warcraft, and so the same 3D graphics that are in those, you know there arecompanies using those for, for, in the medical business, so uh, I started learning about CTscans, Cat scans, computed tomography and uh, uh, these are x ray machines that rotatearound your body, the source and the sensors rotate around your body.And there's an algorithm called the filtered back projection algorithm that was inventedby a guy at Stanford, a professor at Stanford, by the name of Bracewell. In the '60's tomap the weather maps of the sun. So that's now used in CT scans, they can rotate thisthing around you and boom, here's a slice of your body on a film. Not different than, notall that different than that radiologist film, you shove it up against the wall, till about '98,'99, one slice of your body per rotation. So you gotta hold your breath, you gotta try to getyour heart to slow down, you know, there is all sorts of blurs and artifacts, but then thereis a bunch of companies that make these, its GE and Siemens and Phillips and Toshiba...sort of all coincidentally, I don't know who was first, but around '98, '99, they came upwith four slice per rotation machines, ok. And so now you got four films, or you know,six, you got a bunch of films on the screen.Then in about '02 they came up with sixteen slice per rotation, and its just silicon, right,its silicon sensors and an x ray source and uh, what so we use today? Well, we use sixtyfour slice per rotation and that's the state of the art for for CAT scanners today. So I'm,this guys a 3D model character, cause when you have sixty four slices, you're not puttinglight things up on the board, there's, it too much of a hassle to handle the film.Well, there's enough data there that you, you know, you can just create a 3D model of theheart and do it in color and pull the arteries out and that's what these, its a company called(unidentified) and there's a bunch of guys that do this. And its fascinating. Boom.There's... you take an image and all the sudden there's you brain, there's your lungs,there's your heart on the screen, you can rotate it around, its like these video games. Andso I'm talking to this guy and he's telling me. Four, and then sixteen and then sixteen andthen sixty four. And so I look at him and go oh, let me guess, the next generation uh, CTscanners are gonna be 256 light scanners. And he looked at me and he said, well, how didyou know that? I go, uh, I own a digital camera, all right, I mean its the flash code, its themagic numbers of Silicon Valley and we all know that, right. But it struck me first time tohear something that has the same pace of innovation as Silicon Valley.There is something in medicine thats advancing like flash memory and like processorspeeds and like line whips and I, and all that kind of stuff and sure enough, the nextgeneration 256 light scanners can scan your heart in a tenth of a second. So there is nobreathing that is going to mess it up, there is no heart beat that is going to mess it up, andyou can get this beautiful 3D image and find that arterial sclerosis, the hardening of thearteries or any, shouldn't say any, but most heart disease, right, non interventional.You don't have to slap me down in the cath lab, its by shining x rays and its gonna changethe entire business of heart disease because you are going to be able to find these thingsearly and if you find em early, you can either out them on the regime of statins that peoplewith high cholesterol and blood pressure do, or there's companies (unidentified) whichhas since, John Simpson's company, goes in, its almost like a little Roto Rooter and startspulling the um, the plaque out and so, you know the problem is that these scans areexpensive. They are a thousand bucks today. And those initial, the machines are two tothree million bucks, those initial scans are going to be a thousand bucks, so about 1% ofadults have heart attacks every year.Now, I don't see a hundred people in here, so that means someone outside of this bookstore is gonna have a heart attack, not no one here, in the next year. But, it, it, you know,uh that, with stints and the hospital stay and the rush to the hospital in the ambulance andthe aspirin and band aids, you know, it cost about thirty grand, no it doesn't cost us thirtygrand, it cost our insurance companies or Medicare thirty grand for that one out of ahundred person who actually has the heart attack. Well, at a 1,000 dollars a scan, it wouldcost a 100,000 dollars to find that one with these CT scans.So Blue Cross, will they pay for scans? Na uh, they won't do it, why? Because 100,000versus 30,000, they got a business, right. And it cheaper to let nature do their screeningfor them. Now its a brutal screening, but its, you know, its nasty and that's the economicsof the business. So at 500 bucks, man, they are still not gonna pay for it. At 250 dollars ascan, they're gonna start paying for them. At 100 dollars a scan, they're not only going towant you to have the scan, but they're going to insist that you get scanned for heartdisease, because it'll be cheaper to scan those hundred people, you know, a hundredadults, then pay the thirty grand and by the time, you know those things are a hundredbucks, its gonna be fifty grand when you have a heart attack and get taken to the hospital.And that's the economics of the business, is everything in health care goes up in costs,doctors, medical devices, hospital stays, just because there is so many people in the way, its expensive.But if you can, and this is the message that we have seen again and again, we know this inSilicon Valley, we've done it to tellers and operators and auto mechanics and stock tradersand travel agents and its the same thing every time. You take the intelligence of doctorsand you embed it in silicon and software so that you not only can deliver it cheaply andwidely, but it can do something better, right. Looking inside me with CT scans is a heckof a lot better than banging my knee or more importantly the fuzzy cholesterol numbersand heart disease numbers and so, you know, I found what I was looking for, istechnology that was going to invade medicine. Silicon, was going to invade medicine.And so, one of the people that helped out a lot with this book is Dr. Gary Glazer who runsthe radiology, runs radiology at Stanford. He's doing all the advanced imaging work, allthe people under him are doing this. And so he would send me to conferences and let melook at what was going on at Stanford and pointing me to other people in the industry andit was fantastic. So I went to him and I go, you know, with (unidentified) light scanners,uh, I get the sense that a lot less people are gonna have heart attacks or a stroke. And helooked at me and he said, like I was an idiot and said, oh yeah. Those are great. Heartattacks and strokes will be a thing of the past. And, you know, here's a distinguished headof a major university, you know the greatest university in the world, perhaps. And he'stelling me that no one should ever have heart attacks and strokes again once thesetechnologies get cheap enough. And then, and this is when I knew I had a book, right.And then he looked at me and said, but that's nothing, you know... what do you meannothing? That's something, you know, you're crazy. He goes, we can do the same thingfor cancer. And I, you know, this is then turned my head around, because he explainedthat there is new technologies and new techniques called molecular imaging. So I said, ohthat means, you know 4096 slice CT scanners where you can look at uh, actual moleculesand file a (unidentified) and he goes, no its not that, not at all. And he goes, what is it, andhe goes well, its the ability to not take an x ray and send it through you and look forshadows and grey scales and stuff, but have probes go in and find you now cancer fromthe inside out and send signals out from inside your body to find these things.And it set me off on a journey that gives me a headache thinking about, but it was filledwith so many, so many fun and bizarre stories and so I went up to the, the FredHutchinson Cancer Center up in Seattle where what they are doing, and this is happeningin a lot of places, is there is almost a space race going on to identify unique proteins incancer cells. So, you know, if you do that and you can create bio markers, you knowbasically anti bodies, or other things, but usually antibodies, that can then identify thoseunique proteins and so its not easy. There's these mass spectrometer machines. I alwayswonder what mass spectrometer machines were used for, rather than kind of funkypictures that chip companies use and sure enough, they take and they liquefy or atomize,if you will, these tissue and then they throw em up against the wall and which one doesn'tfall away, you could figure out the molecular weight and its an involved process and ittakes forever to do. Its meticulous. You know I look at it and I saw the number 80 on thismachine. There was a print out or an LCD screen and I saw, its eighty. I go oh, is that 80nanoseconds, right? And the guy looked at me and he goes, no, no. that's eighty seconds.In other words, that one little tiny test and they do zillions of them took eighty seconds. Igo, well I'm used to seeing things that are in eighty nanoseconds in Silicon Valley. He